KVR Audio

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:56 am

I was going to post this in the orchestral thread, but thought it might be hijacking.

I currently own GPO and EWQLSO Silver (which is fine for my needs) but it lacks a few articulations that I'd like to build on. There's the EWQLSO PRO update which adds about 3Gig of extra samples which could be good. Also, there's a 30% reduction due to the new European SoundsOnline store opening.

However, for roughly the same price I can use EWQLSO Silver to upgrade to the full Kontakt2 which has lots of samples from VSL. I'm just worried that the VSL will be 'more of the same' with regard to basic articulations.

Ocean Zen · Post by **Ocean Zen** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:16 am

I sold my EWQLSO gold after upgrading to K2 as the VSL orchestra is gorgeous, AND it has much more in the library than just orchestral stuff

TrekStar · Post by **TrekStar** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:39 am

fandango wrote:... I'm just worried that the VSL will be 'more of the same' with regard to basic articulations.

no need to worry, these libraries have totally different approaches.

I would go for k2 vsl. also because of the sampler which opens to you big options to redesign the instruments to you needs (e.g. scripts).

depends on which instrument group you need most. if you're heading for brass, silver/xp in the sum is better. however the string ensembles of vsl sound definitely better than silver. on the other hand silver has additional solo strings, which k2 vsl is lacking of. but the k2 library has execllent pianos, guitars and many other ones (a killer legato horn ensemble e.g.)...

good luck with your decision!

dusted william · Post by **dusted william** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:19 pm

I would go for K2.

I don't know if it is just me, but I swear it sounds much better than K1

dw

rpc9943 · Post by **rpc9943** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:06 pm

im gonna pick up me some k2

very soon actually - why dont you just do that and then youll have a nice platform for later if you want to get other orch packs

RonC

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:21 pm

Thanks guys, I was leaning towards the K2 upgrade and the response here seems to confirm that it's a good idea. Also, K2 will allow me to use some libraries that I wouldn't be able to use otherwise.

There were certain brass articulations in the Silver Pro that were quite useful (staccato horns etc.), but I'm sure VSL will be fine.

Thanks for the help guys.

rpc9943 · Post by **rpc9943** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:24 pm

yeah then your next purchase can be silver pro

RonC

Nikolas · Post by **Nikolas** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:19 pm

Ocean Zen wrote:I sold my EWQLSO gold after upgrading to K2 as the VSL orchestra is gorgeous...

*cough* how did you do that?

Anyway I think that K2 is a far better value for money, at the wayt you stand, than Silver XP Pro (imo). I don't think you'll get many new articulations on an orchestra though... Depends on what you need really...

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:31 pm

Actually, I think I'm going to go for the Silver Pro upgrade for the following reasons:

1. K2 upgrade price will be the same in a few months time, 30% off Silver Pro won't.
2. I don't actually need a new sampler, or most of the options in K2. I have a good convolution reverb already, sample converters, etc.
3. Ummm... I don't actually like the examples posted on the NativeInstruments website for the Orchestra.

4. I know specifically which articulations are there in the Pro version.

Hmn... I just don't know...

ozinexile · Post by **ozinexile** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:33 pm

You mention there some artictulations you feel you are lacking in your current setup. So that should be your basis for un upgrade, not what current deals are going. I've been sucked in by a few specials and group buys that I couldn't pass up at the time, only to find that I'm not using it 6 months down the track.

I'm not at my DAW at the moment but can post some details about the included VSL content with K2 later. That may help you decide. I use K2 with EWQLSO Gold and find that I use the VSL sounds for a contrast or when I need something a little drier and more intimate. Still, I'm looking at that XP upgrade and wondering where I'm going to get the money from, especially since I know it will show up on the credit card bill at some stage in the future.

Be prepared for a learning curve with K2, it's not difficult to call up sounds, assign midi channels and outputs etc. (the basics), but the temptation is there to start meddling with scripts, convolution and building programs to suit your personal needs. Not a bad thing but takes some time.

Good Luck!

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:45 pm

The advantages of K2 would of course be more power. Even if you don't THINK you need them, you will WANT to use them. K2 is the most powerful sampler out there right now, and the things you can do with it are so deep and completely awesome. Plus, you get a ton of sounds besides just orchestra.

That being said, the actual articulations aren't too much different. No solo strings, and no intricate articulations. The sounds ARE fantastic, and are as good as the Silver instruments(I don't have the Pro upgrade, just the basic Silver). It will just depend on what you want to do.

With K2, you can take the current instruments you have in Silver, and tweak them even more then the Kompakt player will allow. But again, it depends on what articulations you are looking for.

Could you tell us which ones you are needing, and we could tell you if they are in K2? Just to help make a smarter decision?

Koolkeys

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:31 am

ozinexile wrote:You mention there some artictulations you feel you are lacking in your current setup. So that should be your basis for un upgrade, not what current deals are going. I've been sucked in by a few specials and group buys that I couldn't pass up at the time, only to find that I'm not using it 6 months down the track.

Ah yes, but it's the Silver that's on offer with the articulations that I need. It's only the 30% price reduction till Jun 30th that makes me consider it at the moment next to K2. The reason I don't just go straight for K2 is that K2 will stay at that price months down the line regardless of what choice I make now.

I'm not at my DAW at the moment but can post some details about the included VSL content with K2 later. That may help you decide.

Thanks.

The Silver is great (imo) for the long brass sustain programs (especially those with modwheel volume control aka GPO), however it's lacking staccato.

The XP update would give me:

# 6 French Horns
# Marcato f 1 sec
# Stac short mp x2
# Stac short mf x2
# Stac short f x2
# Stac short ff x2
# Muted Sustain mf
# Qlegato mp
# Qlegato f typical med bright
# Clusters

Could you give me an articulation listing for, say, ensemble French Horns in K2 VSL? (i.e., a rough idea of the articulations in VSL for that instrument?)

koolkeys: Yep, the temptation for all the options that come with K2 is pretty convincing. I just have a sense that I already spend too much time tweaking things, playing with extra options instead of concentrating on improving my basic mixing, composition and overall mastering.

ozinexile · Post by **ozinexile** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:55 pm

Here is a cut and paste of the VSL French Horn Ensembles from the Kontakt 2 library pdf file. The artictulations are fairly representative of all instruments. Following that is a list of instrument groups. I hope this helps.

Instrument
Size
Keyrange
Controller
Info
Origin
Weblink
20 FRENCH HORN ENSEMBLE
French Horn ensemble with 4 players
01 Standard Instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (all).nki
120.80 MB
G#1 - F4
C0 - E0
Articulations: staccato 1, staccato 2, sustain, sforzando, fortepiano
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (fortepiano).nki
12.01 MB
G#1 - F4
fortepiano
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (sforzando).nki
11.71 MB
G#1 - F4
sforzando
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (stac 1).nki
9.86 MB
G#1 - F4
staccato 1
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (stac 1+2 alt).nki
19.21 MB
G#1 - F4
staccato 1/staccato 2 alternating
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (stac 1+2).nki
19.21 MB
G#1 - F4
C0 - C#0
staccato 1/staccato 2 keyswitched
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (stac 2).nki
9.87 MB
G#1 - F4
staccato 2
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (sustain).nki
77.87 MB
G#1 - F4
sustain
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (sustain+flt).nki
77.87 MB
G#1 - F4
Modwheel
Modwheel > Brightness (lowpass filter)
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
02 Modwheel X-Fades
Frn Horn ens 4 (all X).nki
120.80 MB
G#1 - F4
C0 - E0 / MW
Articulations: staccato 1, staccato 2, sustain, sforzando, fortepiano / Modwheel
fades between piano and forte
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (fortepiano X).nki
39.97 MB
G#1 - F4
Modwheel
fortepiano / Modwheel fades between piano and forte
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (sforzando X).nki
39.67 MB
G#1 - F4
Modwheel
sforzando / Modwheel fades between piano and forte
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (stac 1 X).nki
9.86 MB
G#1 - F4
Modwheel
staccato 1 / Modwheel fades between piano and forte
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (stac 1+2 alt X).nki
19.21 MB
G#1 - F4
Modwheel
staccato 1/staccato 2 alternating / Modwheel fades between piano and forte
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (stac 1+2 X).nki
19.21 MB
G#1 - F4
C0 - C#0 / MW
staccato 1/stacccato 2 keyswitched / Modwheel fades between piano and forte
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (stac 2 X).nki
9.87 MB
G#1 - F4
Modwheel
staccato 2 / Modwheel fades between piano and forte
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (sustain X).nki
77.87 MB
G#1 - F4
Modwheel
sustain / Modwheel fades between piano and forte
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
03 Release Triggers
Frn Horn ens 4 (sustain+rls).nki
86.32 MB
G#1 - F4
sustain + release samples
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (sustain+flt+rls).nki
86.32 MB
G#1 - F4
Modwheel
sustain + release samples / Modwheel > Brightness (lowpass filter)
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments
04 Legato Instruments
Frn Horn ens 4 (legato).nki
193.83 MB
G#1 - F4
legato with KSP legato tool
VSL - Opus 1
http://www.vsl.co.at/instruments

Instrument overview:
STRINGS
• 01 Violin ensemble
• 02 Viola ensemble
• 03 Cello ensemble
• 04 Double Bass ensemble
• 05 Harp
Playing techniques:
Staccato: up and down bow
Long notes: sustained notes, with vibrato
Special dynamics: fortepiano, sforzando
Tremolos: sustained tremolos
Pizzicato: pizzicato
Performance: legato / repetition
Harp: Normal / Flageolet
WOODWINDS
• 06 Piccolo Flute
• 07 Flute
• 08 Oboe
• 09 French Oboe
• 10 English Horn
• 11 Clarinet
• 12 Bass Clarinet
• 13 Clarinet & Bass Clarinet
• 14 Bassoon
• 15 Contrabassoon
• 16 Bassoon & Contrabassoon
Playing techniques:
Staccato: 2 variations
Long notes: sustained notes,
(some with vibrato)
Special dynamics: fortepiano, sforzando
Performance: legato
BRASS
• 17 Trumpet solo
• 18 Trumpet ensemble
• 19 French Horn solo
• 20 French Horn ensemble
• 21 Trombone solo
• 22 Trombone ensemble
• 23 Tuba
Playing techniques:
Staccato: 2 variations
Long notes: sustained notes,
(some with vibrato)
Special dynamics: fortepiano, sforzando
Performance: legato
PERCUSSION
• 24 Timpani
• 25 Drums
• 26 Cymbals
• 27 Percussion
• 28 Mallets & Bells

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:57 am

That's pretty comprehensive then! To be honest, I wasn't expecting that many per instrument.

Many thanks for hunting this out!

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:55 pm

LAST QUESTION - I promise!

How do the Brass samples in VSL compare to their EWQLSO counterparts? The EastWest brass has always (to my mind) had more of that "powerful" Hollywood/Soundtrack feel to it.

Are the VSL samples similarly strong? This is probably my main reason for looking into VSL vs. Silver XP. (btw - I also know about Project SAM Brass, etc. but I'm really just interested in VSL vs Silver XP at the moment)

EWQLSO Silver Pro or Kontakt2 upgrade?