KVR Audio

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:32 am

Even the cut down ones?

FatFreddy · Post by **FatFreddy** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:46 pm

SL and SX are dongled. SE has been too since version 3. The only dongle free version left is LE that comes with hardware. I'm not sure if they still do Cubasis anymore, but it wasn't dongled either. Anyway it's not a dongle anymore it's a Steinberg Key.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:02 pm

I was hoping maybe the SE version at least didn't.

Lord Snarebottom · Post by **Lord Snarebottom** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:12 pm

What difference does it make? The dongle is unobtrusive, you won't even know it's there.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:12 pm

If it means anything, I find the Cubase USB Key totally negligible; I just don't notice it and it causes zero problems. The only thing I don't like about it (apart from the "Big Brother" aspect of dongles) is that you have to manually unplug the USB Key during updates. But the Syncrosoft keys I find stable and reliable - plus it means you can demo/buy IK Multimedia stuff, for instance.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:25 pm

To be honest I just wanted to get the simplest, cheapest version because I thought it might help resolve some of my problems with certain awkward plugins (like Hartman Neuron and NI KORE) since in theory I'd have expected an app made by the people who developed the VST standard to be most compatible. However since both apps mentioned already use USB ports (which seems at least to be part of the problem) I'd rather not have yet another device polling the USB ports while recording audio - just adds to more potential conflicts and complications (plus I don't have a spare port and none of these devices take to hubs particularly well I hear).

TotcProductions · Post by **TotcProductions** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:34 pm

Yes, they all have dongles except for LE. Honestly, the synchrosoft dongles aren't terrible. I've never had mine cause a problem. It's the PACE-iLok ones you have to look out for, those'll f**k your system really good.

Peace

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:36 pm

Yeah, it's getting pretty ridiculous. It's one thing if they could have just made one type of USB Key, but nooooo, there has to be a free market feeding frenzy of middlemen, and here we are with - what? - 3-4 different types of keys, and you can't even try out demos anymore? Absurd.

What problems are you having/which host(s)?

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:51 pm

Ironically they both work pretty flawlessly in Orion Platinum but I don't like to use OP that much as its not particularly conducive to my way of working which tends to require more flexibility, a more linear way of working and better audio management (so I can ad lib, record multiple takes, cut and paste between layers, timestretch and scratch about and do collage type work with audio etc) Some of this I can do in Tracktion which I find makes a better sketch pad for me but Neuron in particular is more unstable in Tracktion and at times just tends to make it go poof (its still not as happy as other hosts with my NI stuff either). I've been trying Podium but to be honest its becoming a drag, too much work to get anything done in it and I'm fighting the interface all the time. I want something I can sketch out ideas in. I've considered Live but from various sources I've heard its not that good at plugin compatibility and that both Neuron and KORE have a tendency to crash it at the moment. I have Project 5 /2 and am happiest with how that works apart from the niggle that it won't allow me to set up more than one audio in at a time which means I can't use all my hardware alongside soft synths (and I have to convert VSTi's to DX which I don't like really).

All I want is one host to rule them all so to speak

TotcProductions · Post by **TotcProductions** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:53 pm

bduffy wrote:Yeah, it's getting pretty ridiculous. It's one thing if they could have just made one type of USB Key, but nooooo, there has to be a free market feeding frenzy of middlemen, and here we are with - what? - 3-4 different types of keys, and you can't even try out demos anymore? Absurd.

What problems are you having/which host(s)?

I've had problems with the PACE-ilok drivers is all...various freezes, crashes, etc..etc...due to them not liking some of my software, or just my PC in general. I agree, I wouldn't mind the dongle at all if all the damn companies would just agree to use one system. Honsetly, if they all used the Synchrosoft system, I'd be happy...then I could have all my keys on 1 dongle and probably no system instability. The random use of different dongle systems has stopped me from purchasing quite a few plugs...like the VBaudio plugins for example...I love the guys work, that channel strip plug he released for free sounds excellent, as did the free reverb he put out years back, but if I purchased one of his commercial plugins, I'd have to buy a seperate dongle from the ones I already have, which are more than enough for me already. So, no sale there.

Oh well, Common sense is lacking in every other part of the world these days, why not in the audio software industry as well.

Peace

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:57 pm

aMUSEd wrote:Ironically they both work pretty flawlessly in Orion Platinum but I don't like to use OP that much as its not particularly conducive to my way of working which tends to require more flexibility, a more linear way of working and better audio management (so I can ad lib, record multiple takes, cut and paste between layers, timestretch and scratch about and do collage type work with audio etc) Some of this I can do in Tracktion which I find makes a better sketch pad for me but Neuron in particular is more unstable in Tracktion and at times just tends to make it go poof (its still not as happy as other hosts with my NI stuff either). I've been trying Podium but to be honest its becoming a drag, too much work to get anything done in it and I'm fighting the interface all the time. I want something I can sketch out ideas in. I've considered Live but from various sources I've heard its not that good at plugin compatibility and that both Neuron and KORE have a tendency to crash it at the moment. I have Project 5 /2 and am happiest with how that works apart from the niggle that it won't allow me to set up more than one audio in at a time which means I can't use all my hardware alongside soft synths (and I have to convert VSTi's to DX which I don't like really).

All I want is one host to rule them all so to speak

SONAR? Hmm, no, that's probably not the stablest for Nueron/KORE....EnergyXT? No, probably to un-linear...hmmm...Samplitude? I don't know; sounds like Cubase is your thing, but if you simply cannot abide the dongle, then I'm not sure. tracktion was going to be my next suggestion, but again, I think Cubase is more up your alley.

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:00 pm

Lord Snarebottom wrote:What difference does it make? The dongle is unobtrusive, you won't even know it's there.

I'd know it's there, since I'd have to either unplug my trackball or my controller keyboard in order to plug the dongle in.

But then it won't be a problem for me, since Steinberg's insistence on the Dongle thing ensures I won't use their product. (Wouldn't use it if they gave it to me free.)

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:04 pm

TotcProductions wrote:
bduffy wrote:Yeah, it's getting pretty ridiculous. It's one thing if they could have just made one type of USB Key, but nooooo, there has to be a free market feeding frenzy of middlemen, and here we are with - what? - 3-4 different types of keys, and you can't even try out demos anymore? Absurd.

What problems are you having/which host(s)?
I've had problems with the PACE-ilok drivers is all...various freezes, crashes, etc..etc...due to them not liking some of my software, or just my PC in general. I agree, I wouldn't mind the dongle at all if all the damn companies would just agree to use one system. Honsetly, if they all used the Synchrosoft system, I'd be happy...then I could have all my keys on 1 dongle and probably no system instability. The random use of different dongle systems has stopped me from purchasing quite a few plugs...like the VBaudio plugins for example...I love the guys work, that channel strip plug he released for free sounds excellent, as did the free reverb he put out years back, but if I purchased one of his commercial plugins, I'd have to buy a seperate dongle from the ones I already have, which are more than enough for me already. So, no sale there. Oh well, Common sense is lacking in every other part of the world these days, why not in the audio software industry as well.

Peace

Indeed! I still like to think that rationality can pervail, but today's headlines pretty much disprove that.

Anyway, yeah, Pace = death. I wish I could say that Waves will be feeling the backlash soon, but I doubt it. They have the moneyed patronage, people who simply will not blink at $3k packages and extortionist support policies. I'm in the process of phasing out Waves at work, which sucks, because I really love some of their plugins, but the costs are unjustifiable, and I can abide one USB Key, and no more! I'd love to see a list of who uses Syncrosoft dongles; as for now, the only ones I know are IK and the new (excellent) AirEQ. I agree about he VBAudio plugins; I think he lost some potential sales here becuase he went with a custom dongle. Plus, his website is a freakin' train wreck! :-o3

Let's see: Hosts, Dongles and politics...HPC, here we come!!

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:08 pm

bduffy wrote:I'm in the process of phasing out Waves at work, which sucks, because I really love some of their plugins, but the costs are unjustifiable

I don't understand. If you're in a position to "phase out" Waves, isn't it a sunk cost already?

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:09 pm

bduffy wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:Ironically they both work pretty flawlessly in Orion Platinum but I don't like to use OP that much as its not particularly conducive to my way of working which tends to require more flexibility, a more linear way of working and better audio management (so I can ad lib, record multiple takes, cut and paste between layers, timestretch and scratch about and do collage type work with audio etc) Some of this I can do in Tracktion which I find makes a better sketch pad for me but Neuron in particular is more unstable in Tracktion and at times just tends to make it go poof (its still not as happy as other hosts with my NI stuff either). I've been trying Podium but to be honest its becoming a drag, too much work to get anything done in it and I'm fighting the interface all the time. I want something I can sketch out ideas in. I've considered Live but from various sources I've heard its not that good at plugin compatibility and that both Neuron and KORE have a tendency to crash it at the moment. I have Project 5 /2 and am happiest with how that works apart from the niggle that it won't allow me to set up more than one audio in at a time which means I can't use all my hardware alongside soft synths (and I have to convert VSTi's to DX which I don't like really).

All I want is one host to rule them all so to speak
SONAR? Hmm, no, that's probably not the stablest for Nueron/KORE....EnergyXT? No, probably to un-linear...hmmm...Samplitude? I don't know; sounds like Cubase is your thing, but if you simply cannot abide the dongle, then I'm not sure. tracktion was going to be my next suggestion, but again, I think Cubase is more up your alley.

I've tried Sonar - couldn't even get it to record one track of audio without glitches - terrible audio engine (at least on my system). I have and use eXT but not the sequencer - just as a Modular host and chainer. Having a look at Reaper at the moment - looks promising.

Do all versions of Cubase require a dongle?