Live5 vs reason vs fruityloops vs project 5

[Ian B]

* P5 is shockingly bad considering it comes from the same company as the excellent Sonar sequencer. It contains some of the worst virtual instruments I have ever heard .
this has to be a joke !

This is P5 v2 you're talking about, isn't it? If so, think yourself lucky you never had the misfortune to buy P5 v1. It was so bad/unstable it was near unusable for some of us. Some of the bundled samples were truly pathetic considering the resources Cakewalk had at their disposal. I believe v2 is a vast improvement, but tbh, it couldn't be anything else. P5 is/was the worst host I've ever bought.

[Rabid]

I did not like P5 v1 but I like version 2 very well. It comes with some great instruments and effecdts. Reason and FL are nice to start but in the end they drive me crazy when trying to arrange and finalize a song. Ableton Live is too different to compare to the others. Sometime I like it and sometimes I hate it. If you want to use lots of audio loops it is the only real choice. If you want occasional audio loops and lots of MIDI loops then P5 will work.

[sgx]

I don't like P5's PSYN very much, but Dimension is the bomb. The other sampler that comes with it is pretty junky...basically legacy stuff from v1. I don't use it.

P5 is great for people who are more midi-oriented. It's audio functions aren't very robust. P5 and Reason is something I really wanted to do, but its functions for controling reason instruments with P5 midi is pretty bad.

Live is really slick, probably in general a bit better than P5 in my opinion, but P5 is better value if you don't already have a stable of vst instruments and effects.

I use ACID Pro 6 and Reason now personally

[zai]

I'll keep this nice and short...if I'm to choose one, I'd go with Live 5 as my first choice because it also function as a host to most VST/AU. Reason comes in a close 2nd for me...and the fact that you can "rewire" it to Live makes it even more useful. A very powerful 1-2 punch.

Reason is a little different in terms of useage for me. I'm an enclose program meaning that it can't "host" any VST/AU plug-ins. That's why you need Live 5 for that purpose.

FruityLoops...have it and play with it as a toy. I can't seems to finish anything with it just like the other poster.

P5 V.2. Can't really comment because I'm running a MAC system. But now that I have XP on my MAC, might give it a try...but I've everything I need in Live 5...so.... Looking forward to Live 6. I've heard some rumors of some new stuff they're trying with this latest release. Can't wait.

Zai

[Trusty]

* P5 is shockingly bad considering it comes from the same company as the excellent Sonar sequencer. It contains some of the worst virtual instruments I have ever heard .

I agree...that this has to be a joke. I'd say it is the BEST all around package out there....and especially the included synths.

[headquest]

* P5 is shockingly bad considering it comes from the same company as the excellent Sonar sequencer. It contains some of the worst virtual instruments I have ever heard .

I agree...that this has to be a joke. I'd say it is the BEST all around package out there....and especially the included synths.

No, it wasn't a joke... it was my personal opinion, formed on the basis of
1) being a registered Sonar 5 PE user (some of the synths are, infortunately, the same)

2) running the demo version of P5v1 and

3) more recently running the CM special demo of P5v2, which included Dimension.

Based on that my personal view is that:

1) Roland Groove Synth is an OK sound module which probably offers a GM soundset that is better than the Microsoft GM synth. However, beyond using as a sketchpad, I cannot think where this would really fit on a track (e.g. compared to the sampled soundset that comes with Reason 3)

2) PSYN II is a very average VA synth. Most of the bundled sounds are horribly tinny, grainy, and simply unusable so far as I am concerned (it comes with Sonar too ). I am amazed that this was done by the same guy who made the truly wonderful z3ta+ synth (which I use regularly and love). It is revealing that Cakewalk have now added this to the budget Kinetic 2 software. That is a better home for it. Personally I prefer the freeware Synth1.

3) DS864 is simply aweful. Surely you don't dispute that? .

4) Velocity and nPulse are both pretty poor too (at least based on the sounds that come with the demo). Put either of these alongside Reason's ReDrum and they are reduced to rubble. A better comparisson is the free drum modules that come with Computer Music magazine each month, which are better!

5) Dimension (i.e. the lite version that bundles with P5) is perhaps more capable of producing sounds comparable with Reason's NN-XT in a Combinator.... so long as you don't mind the fact that Dimension uses massively more CPU than the Reason Combinators do.

As I said though these are my opinions/experiences, and I would add the following disclaimers:

1) Having only used the demo it's possible that Cakewalk did not include the sounds that properly show off the synths/samplers... even though of course the purpose of the demo should be to sell the thing

2) A user who spends a while learning how to get the best out of these instruments will undoubtedly get better results from them than I did (although of course the same applies to Reason, FL, Orion, etc).

3) If you like these instruments (and clearly you do) then good for you. Go make some good music with them.

Personally though I think that the instruments and sample collection that bundle with Reason 3 absolutely demolish P5v2.

[TVD]

Just trying to see which one you use the most for your production.

Primary Host: FL Studio (Producer Edition)

The most user-friendy host ever!

[R2Project]

Here we go again ! I shouldn't get involved in these threads but I just can't help myself !

1) Roland Groove Synth is an OK sound module which probably offers a GM soundset that is better than the Microsoft GM synth. However, beyond using as a sketchpad, I cannot think where this would really fit on a track (e.g. compared to the sampled soundset that comes with Reason 3)

I agree on this one, Roland really let Cakewalk down with this. However as a sketchpad its quite light on the CPU.

2) PSYN II is a very average VA synth. Most of the bundled sounds are horribly tinny, grainy, and simply unusable so far as I am concerned (it comes with Sonar too ). I am amazed that this was done by the same guy who made the truly wonderful z3ta+ synth (which I use regularly and love). It is revealing that Cakewalk have now added this to the budget Kinetic 2 software. That is a better home for it. Personally I prefer the freeware Synth1.

Which of course you can use in P5 but not in Reason. I suspect that the problem with Psyn is that the presets don't make good use of the onboard effects to fatten the sound up. I do agree it's filter's a little weak.

3) DS864 is simply aweful. Surely you don't dispute that? .

It does have some problems with Alaising more than it should I agree. (See http://www.discodsp.com/highlife/aliasing/ which shows it's not a lot worse than Kontakt 1.2.1 though) The soundset isn't the best either. I don't think I've used it for a while.

4) Velocity and nPulse are both pretty poor too (at least based on the sounds that come with the demo). Put either of these alongside Reason's ReDrum and they are reduced to rubble. A better comparisson is the free drum modules that come with Computer Music magazine each month, which are better!

I believe half of the battle here is the sounds in Velocity are clean and unprocessed. Some on the P5 forum have got velocity to sound nice with some extra FX processing after it. Personally I don't use the supplied kit (apart from the real one) but do use samples from elsewhere. It's not up there with BFD or DFH but you won't expect that would you ? nPulse is a little misunderstood, it's very old school and better used layered. Some of the bass kicks can rumble with the best esp when compressed.

5) Dimension (i.e. the lite version that bundles with P5) is perhaps more capable of producing sounds comparable with Reason's NN-XT in a Combinator.... so long as you don't mind the fact that Dimension uses massively more CPU than the Reason Combinators do.

I think the version that comes with the on line sample has a very cut down soundset. P5 V2 comes on DVD rom, most of that is Dimension content I think.

As I said though these are my opinions/experiences, and I would add the following disclaimers:

1) Having only used the demo it's possible that Cakewalk did not include the sounds that properly show off the synths/samplers... even though of course the purpose of the demo should be to sell the thing

2) A user who spends a while learning how to get the best out of these instruments will undoubtedly get better results from them than I did (although of course the same applies to Reason, FL, Orion, etc).

3) If you like these instruments (and clearly you do) then good for you. Go make some good music with them.

Personally though I think that the instruments and sample collection that bundle with Reason 3 absolutely demolish P5v2.

Somethink that Cakewalk do need to work on I agree....

Andy

[spaceman]

they all smell of poo

[pdxindy]

Reason is appealing in its all in one approach, but I just don't use it (it is off my computer at this point). I much prefer my own set of softsynths.

Live - love it. The more I use it, the more I like it. Ableton comes closest to developing an app that works how it would work if I conceived it myself. It is giving much thought to behaving like an instrument. It asks to be experimented with. It is a musicians tool, more than an engineers tool. It's actually fun to use and create music with!

I think the fact that Live is geared towards live performance keeps it going in a direction I like. The features for live performance and dj'ing make studio music production more fun and fluid.

[TSVOS]

As we see here, ...a general simple question to @ll lead always to a sea with different views.

My point of view:

Firstly, i admit to be in love with 3 at once ! How could that happen ? It's just as one guy pointed above...there will be never a perfect solution & satisfaction for @ll preferences. Nor from the Props, Imageliner's or from Ableton or even not from the bigger Cakewalks. Impossible to solve !
But let me introduce u my 3 girlfriends while i will try to explain with my brokenenglish the reasons:

:]Reason[:

I could huge Propellerheads every day for the most stable sequencer & to me "the finest automation expierence/workflow" even when i miss certain features such:

.]Vsti/Dxi support
.]an editor in the kind like Fl's idea & newest replacment with edison (even when i like soundforge but who wouldn't like a all-in-one ? Does enhancing the workflow.)
.]a toyish but useful-feature *tee hee* ...might be cool if they would let the people to have their choices...as to switch between different skins for the whole rack or for just one device (not combinator only)....such a dark mixer for example. Or a controllable spotlight which could lighten the darker parts within the rack. Like in reallife studio is possible to happen. But ok shall we switch to the more important points.

.]Even when Reason is the most cpu friendly sequencer....a freeze-option still would make a sense & could "probably" bring Reason to a new field as vsti/dxi-host. So i probably wouldn't be so much arround Project 5 & Fl-studio

but...

the freakin thang on me is...i can't resist them too !

Now...:]Project 5[:

P5 reminds me a little bit on Reason but of course it is a much different program. To me...P5 is the best Rewire-master to handle a rewire project together with Reason. But there are a few things on P5 that i miss or dislike:

.] To me...a program must not look alike Fl. I like also the more serious style from P5 but it it could get more structure within the interface...the instances...such with more colors....each instance a own color u know. Must not be like red-blue-green. It could also be solved as like....silver-blue-black...i hope u know what i mean.

.] I realy miss a real mixer. I'm not a friend of to nagivate just on the sidebars. A hardware-mixer look, to me, is more useful as the workflow gets faster due better overview. Perhaps not all will agree with me.

.] Also the automation sux abit....better as in Fl-studio according to speed (assignments of buttons / controllers). So to my feel it would be better as it is in Reason...the device u have clicked is finish to play. No programming important if the preset is working for u & ur midi-controller. Well don't spike at me but that's what i call real Remote-controll. So Fl & P5 should learn & find a similar methode or hoping for the day when propellerheads is handing out Remote such Rewire-technology to all hosts.

And last but least...[:Fl-studio:]

As above-mentioned....i do also love the teenage feel of interfacedesign & the their synth, sampler & effect plugin offer are far bigger than from Cakewalk for their P5. Maybe a question of price-strategy. However....with Fl i get a big package to go when i need to make more modern styles. Everything goes much faster but...

.]...first critic goes to their piano roll...basicly ok....nice design...but i realy miss the copy/paste behavour such as in Reason is. That realy should be adapted from Reason & Reason could take an example on FL how a pianoroll should be look alike. lol

.] no other Rewire-host sux as bad as FL. Sorry to their developers...but pls try to take my opinion as constructiv as possible if u read this...i hate the fact & it destroys my workflow when it comes to rewire together with Reason. I would love to play/stop on Reason too when it get's FL's slave.

Why not in that way such P5 allows to ? Is it because of the pattern-sequence-basic ? I hope not only because OF THAT as this would mean insolvable.

I mean i don't have any problems with pattern-sequencing....look i'm a former amiga veteran...and i'm also used to soundtrackers (btw. hello to chris huelsbeck, skale & the renoise-community ). But for rewire apperently a big gate.

.] Most important, as in Reason, to menion is the missing of a freeze-funktion. VERY IMPORTANT to a vsti-host nowadayz !
Actualy i have a workarround with FX-max but a integrated freeze would bring a faster freezNthaw. U know what i mean.
-

I could go on in deeper details what those 3 beloved girls could change....sexier underwear, new positons while sex lol & so on ...but i just put out the most important pros & cons & i tried to proof that there are guyz out who don't bitch too much arround the cons of a software but rather to be able to see positiv even when it's sometimes hard but u know the slogan...if there is will...there will be always a way.

And so my way is to go out with 3 girlz at once. Any objections ?

Ps: If i would be a live performer i would have the sexy 4.

[djroby]

if any of you know what reggaeton is its raggae in spanish but faster. what do most of the producers use, fruity loops, fruity loops is like Windows with a million windows, there is so much you can do ist incredible. you really have to understand fruity loops to like it and really gotta know how to use it. its by far the best and easiest sequencer to work with, combine that with a digi 002 rack and a fast computer and your good. reason does give you better cpu usage, if you use alot of vst in fruity your pc slows down to a noticable degree where over runs occur. me perosnally for music production fl 6.8 is the best

[Igor 4000]

Is Live5 effective as a traditional sequencer/arranger? Or is mainly a loop-rearranging tool?

[smart]

I've been using FL forever but I also use other tools like Live and Orion occasionally. I'm not a fan of P5 - I just can't get it to work for me whenever I try the demo.

Live 6 and FL Studio 6.1 are both on the horizon and both will no doubt have some nice new stuff (FL 6.1 certainly does for a .1 release).

[pdxindy]

Is Live5 effective as a traditional sequencer/arranger? Or is mainly a loop-rearranging tool?

Yes it is effective as a traditional sequencer. The focus on live performance has also made it an all around fine music creation tool. Lots of hosts get bogged down in windows and complex tools. Live is like a musical instrument in that it just asks to be played with, experimented with. It is the most fun host I have used. Maybe for the studio engineer something like Protools is better, but for the person focused on creating music Live is great.