Behringer V-Verb Pro - a real Lexicon and TC Killer ?

[Sascha Franck]

So... melodic examples?

Yes please! And some short, intimidate rooms!
Hrmpf, these dudes are so obsessed with their drama queen exposures.

[pschelfh]

I'm also very interested in hearing some Ambiance programs.

Peter.

[Sammas]

is better than other units that you have never heard or directly compared them too.

Oh that is not right I have heard some of the better class reverb units.... PCM81 , PCM90 ....

but I do not own...and this won't change

what would be a difference if I would own the Quantec Yardstick, I would just be able to run the dry sound through the unit on my own.......
and now tell me where the difference is between downloading the processed sound or do the processing on my own.

do you believe digital transfer (downloading a sound file) will make the file sound more worse?
Fuzzy logic...

Tell me what a serious comparing would look like if you would do it...
And not only critizise what I did.
I am the one how did all the work, uploading it and make it possible for others to listen to some audio examples.
And I know that there are kvr users out there which are thankful for this.

Why don't you go on and put in some PCM91 or Lexicon processed sounds.

Get a little more constructive instead of destructive...

Do you think I will be sad if the V-Verb does not deliver the same quality as the higher end units?

Come we don't have to loose anything.

Digital transfers? They probably don't change a thing, but how is this for contradictary... You are claiming that the V-Verb is excellent, yet the demos on the behringer page are hideous at best. If I had to make a choice given just those demo's, I'd say the V-Verb was a hunk of junk. Yet at the same time you are using the demo's of the Yardstick as an example for comparison... like they are an accurate representation of what the unit can do. It wouldn't be the first time the bunch of presets suck terribly.

If you want to do a comparison, put the units side by side and tweak and compare. All you have managed to do so far is compare the sound of the V-Verb to a bunch of free impulses and an online demo.

Hell. I just fired up my KSP-8 and mimic'ed some of the sounds that behringer has representing the V-verb, on their website... Not even close, if I were to make a decision from that alone I wouldn't use the V-Verb to add reverb to elevator music. Fair comparison, no? According to you it is.

It reminds me of an online "review" I read about a set of converters. It was all good up to the point where the reviewer commented on the "improved clocking design" that these converters had... he said that this clock improved the timing and groove of the drums. I can tell you that I wasn't the only one to let out a sigh after reading that. Makes you question the credibility for everything he wrote.

[Suspended In Dusk]

The title of the thread got me going "yeah, right..." at first. But I too thought this could have been an informative discussion. Oh well...

I can easily conceive that nowadays, even cheaper units like V-Verb Pro can deliver quite decent sounds, maybe even something really good... TC or Lexicon Killer? Probably not. Admiting that the sound "could" be somewhere in the same ballpark, there are the other issues that you have to face when you buy cheaper units: longevity, support, quality of the components...

Exemple - years ago I owned a little "squier" series Fender Stratocaster. The sound was quite decent, and on the outside, it pretty much had all the qualities I had expected from a Strat. However, after a year or two, the electronic components started to give up and get noisier, tuning pegs would get loose, and the guitar started to require more and more adjustments.

Compare that to my real Strat which I've owned for 10 years: I've beaten the hell out of this guitar, I spewed beer over it, it's been exposed to smoke, rain and went through all kind of bad treatments. Well, the electronics runs just as smoth as they did the day I bought it. Even better, I never ever had to re-ajust the guitar in all those years...

That is why I wouldn't expect the Behringer unit to be a TC killer. But who knows in these days...

[Kingston]

the reviewer commented on the "improved clocking design" that these converters had... he said that this clock improved the timing and groove of the drums.

"whoops"

[hifiboom]

So... melodic examples?

what do you wanna hear?
you can send me some dry sound?

[hifiboom]

The title of the thread got me going "yeah, right..." at first. But I too thought this could have been an informative discussion. Oh well...

I can easily conceive that nowadays, even cheaper units like V-Verb Pro can deliver quite decent sounds, maybe even something really good... TC or Lexicon Killer? Probably not. Admiting that the sound "could" be somewhere in the same ballpark, there are the other issues that you have to face when you buy cheaper units: longevity, support, quality of the components...

Exemple - years ago I owned a little "squier" series Fender Stratocaster. The sound was quite decent, and on the outside, it pretty much had all the qualities I had expected from a Strat. However, after a year or two, the electronic components started to give up and get noisier, tuning pegs would get loose, and the guitar started to require more and more adjustments.

Compare that to my real Strat which I've owned for 10 years: I've beaten the hell out of this guitar, I spewed beer over it, it's been exposed to smoke, rain and went through all kind of bad treatments. Well, the electronics runs just as smoth as they did the day I bought it. Even better, I never ever had to re-ajust the guitar in all those years...

That is why I wouldn't expect the Behringer unit to be a TC killer. But who knows in these days...

okay Behringer maybe not the best in terms of quality

Although:
I've got an analog Behringer pult which I extensively used over 7 years
and it was switched on every second day and still works without bigger problems...
1 or 2 pan knobs make slight noise when you move them...

I m sure Mackie has higher quality boards.... but these also get broken at some time...

If a Behringer gets broken, you can afford 4 others from the money you saved instead of buying a Mackie pult....
And within the first 2-3 years I got the warranty.

Some people (like me/student) can't afford the real expensive units...

MY AKAI S3000 had to be repaired two times because of havy midi timing problems....
And I would say AKAI is one of the better class units..

So is price = quality ? no

okay if your equipment needs to work also flooded by "beer" I would def. recommend you a Behringer, as it will be cheaper to replace...
(normally this is not under warranty)

<< joke mode on >>
"Ah I bought a Lex 960L"
"now after some beer getted inside the unit it doesn't work properly"
"Shit man, I thought I bought a quality product"
<< joke mode off >>

LOL

[hifiboom]

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Hell. I just fired up my KSP-8 and mimic'ed some of the sounds that behringer has representing the V-verb, on their website... Not even close, if I were to make a decision from that alone I wouldn't use the V-Verb to add reverb to elevator music. Fair comparison, no? According to you it is. 

of course it is a fair comparison ...

But: Its easy to recreate bad sounding reverb presets, but its more diffcult to recreate the special sounding ones...( and the Quantec is one of these - it only have a few presets and few parameters)

Why don't you mimic the sound of the Quantec with your KSP-8 just for fun and put this online...

So this would be more intersting (especially for the rest of the forum members ) than just talking about something nobody can comprehend...

Nobody will keep you from using your KSP-8 over a V-Verb ... but flavores are different ... and so put some samples to public place, so anybody can decide on its own.

[pdxindy]

thanks for switching to mp3's

It would be cool to see more examples and direct comparisons by readers. There was a great thread while back with dozens of comparisons of different reverbs with many people participating. That was kvr at its best.

I own the ArtsAcoustic Reverb. I will not buy CSR because I refuse dongles. I am happy with the AAR for a variety of circumstances, but an inexpensive unit that sounds good and uses no cpu is appealing. Since some people have ordered it, maybe in the coming days we will see more comparisons.

[hifiboom]

okay some asked for short room and vocals....

I have to add this Behringer Room Simulator is more for ultra realistic sounding reverb.
For special FX you have to take something other...
Its hard to create reverbs that do not sound ultra realistic...
But I may try later these days...


Listen on your own

This is a George Bush speech....

I have taken the V-Verb Algo which is ultra flaxible comapred to many other reverbs, made the high freq decay time very short, as this is normal with very small rooms.

First dry,

than 50 % wet 50 % dry

later I opened the room size parameter from 4 to 80 (you will hear that easily)
1:02 - 1:50

at the end I change the decay times a little bit for another room impression

Size also more small

http://home.arcor.de/bdk2003/vverb/pres ... r_what.mp3

I think it is perfect room simulation.... hard to beat....

have fun...

[snooky]

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Hell. I just fired up my KSP-8 and mimic'ed some of the sounds that behringer has representing the V-verb, on their website... Not even close, if I were to make a decision from that alone I wouldn't use the V-Verb to add reverb to elevator music. Fair comparison, no? According to you it is. 

of course it is a fair comparison ...

But: Its easy to recreate bad sounding reverb presets, but its more diffcult to recreate the special sounding ones...

what's the difference between a "special sounding" and "bad sounding" reverb preset in the same machine?

A good reverb algo can't make "bad" sounding preets, just different sounding presets...

You who praise the v-verb so much, can you make a bad sounding preset that won't work in ANY context and everyone in the world will think is bad?

nope, it's all about taste, as you say.

silly man...going back and forth and saying that it's not fair to judge the preset demo on the behringer homepage, but it's fair to judge a quantech by two audio demos or whatever....you're just asking for trouble, making no sence whatsoever.

[hifiboom]

silly man...going back and forth and saying that it's not fair to judge the preset demo on the behringer homepage

I ve never said someting like that! ???

The Behringer homepage just shows the first 10 Presets of the unit.
(These are the 10 reverb algos the unit has with standard settings )

Nothing more.

And if you would be more experienced in judging reverb quality, you would recognize that the demo sounds on Behringer page are very good. The reverb on drums sound is completely free from shattering, ringing, etc . and ultra phase linear....


Not special sounding but just perfectly. No unit does sound that well with drums...

[hifiboom]

A good reverb algo can't make "bad" sounding preets, just different sounding presets...

A Lex PCM 90 def. had some Presets that I did not like very much.... And the TC also have...
Specially with drums....where you extremly hear the early reflections in an annoying way...

Just wrong what you keep telling here....

[bmanic]

.. ever considered that the lex preset might have been designed like that on purpose? (hint: spring reverb or old crappy plate)

Cheers!
bManic

[Cordelia]

A Lex PCM 90 def. had some Presets that I did not like very much.... And the TC also have...
Specially with drums....where you extremly hear the early reflections in an annoying way...

I can understand that. I'm not a fan of the way Lexicon handles the sound of small spaces. Actually, I'm not a fan of Lexicon reverbs at all, having owned (and disliked) an LXP15 for years.
I'm also not a fan of Behringer products in general, but this thread is interesting to me. I think reverbs, hardware especially, have been overpriced, so the competition is welcomed. I'm looking forward to hearing these examples. Thanks, hifiboom.