Behringer V-Verb Pro - a real Lexicon and TC Killer ?

[Warp69]

I have just downloaded three demo samples from Quantec homepage and tried to recreate their famous Yardstick Cathedral Algorithmus which was quite easy.......

Of course its extremly hard to make it exactly sound like the original reverb. But I think I came very close......

listen on your own:
here you find the original dry
http://mp3.quantec.de/audio/Drumsolo/Brush_Dry_112s.mp3
Quatec Yradstick Church algo:
http://mp3.quantec.de/audio/Drumsolo/Br ... h_112s.mp3

That is what I get out of the V-Verb unit with the Cathedral algorithmus and some tuning...
http://home.arcor.de/soundspace1/reverb ... church.mp3

I hope I am not too far away from reality....

Hi hifiboom,

I have just listened to your test regarding the Quantec comparison and unfortunately the V-Verb lacks alot of spatial information and density compared to the Quantec - infact its quite different. It sounds like the algorithm used on the test is either a mono->stereo algorithm or have a smaller room setting.

But I agree that only 0.1% would buy the Quantec reverb - but I would The V-Verb is a good deal.

Cheers

[kmonkey]

is better than other units that you have never heard or directly compared them too.

Oh that is not right I have heard some of the better class reverb units.... PCM81 , PCM90 ....

but I do not own...and this won't change

what would be a difference if I would own the Quantec Yardstick, I would just be able to run the dry sound through the unit on my own.......
and now tell me where the difference is between downloading the processed sound or do the processing on my own.

do you believe digital transfer (downloading a sound file) will make the file sound more worse?
Fuzzy logic...

Tell me what a serious comparing would look like if you would do it...
And not only critizise what I did.
I am the one how did all the work, uploading it and make it possible for others to listen to some audio examples.
And I know that there are kvr users out there which are thankful for this.

Why don't you go on and put in some PCM91 or Lexicon processed sounds.

Get a little more constructive instead of destructive...

Do you think I will be sad if the V-Verb does not deliver the same quality as the higher end units?

Come we don't have to loose anything.

Digital transfers? They probably don't change a thing, but how is this for contradictary... You are claiming that the V-Verb is excellent, yet the demos on the behringer page are hideous at best. If I had to make a choice given just those demo's, I'd say the V-Verb was a hunk of junk. Yet at the same time you are using the demo's of the Yardstick as an example for comparison... like they are an accurate representation of what the unit can do. It wouldn't be the first time the bunch of presets suck terribly.

Ummmm...dude. Are you read what you write? At the same time you claim that behringer demo is crap and that behringer is hunk of junk and this is your conclusion by demo on webpage and yet at the same time you claim this: "Yet at the same time you are using the demo's of the Yardstick as an example for comparison... like they are an accurate representation of what the unit can do."

WTF? So how do you get idea that behringer is hunk of junk if you believe that you can't judge unit by some demo(your way of thinking about yardstick). Please i wont argue with you or flame or whatever. I just can't belive how people can be fooled (in this case by demo of both products) and how they change statements....

So either you are in "i think behringer is bad because it is cheap" elitistic bandwagon or you are not clear with yourself in giving opinion.

What is Yardstick anyway


Ummm maybe my english is bad (i am sure it is bad esp. when typing but...)

[spuddle]

So... melodic examples?

what do you wanna hear?
you can send me some dry sound?

Ya missed me first time round I guess:

I would like to hear some melodic demos please! Pianos, synths, guitars etc

I would supply some but at the moment I'm stuck with 56k and limited means of uploading

Anyone else want to step up?

[Suspended In Dusk]

Mind you, I visit Behringer's page at least once a month and I suscribed to their newsletter a few years ago already - which is why I thought this discussion could be interesting... I don't own any of their product, yet I keep an opened mind and regard them as an option should I ever need it.

They do have a bad rep. Nevertheless, I do know that decent quality components are available at a much cheaper cost nowaday than they were, say, 6 or 7 years ago. Best exemple to me is M-Audio, who manage to offer really decent products at an affordable price (okay, I'm slightly biased, almost every piece of equipment I own bears the M-Audio tag )

okay Behringer maybe not the best in terms of quality

Although:
I've got an analog Behringer pult which I extensively used over 7 years
and it was switched on every second day and still works without bigger problems...
1 or 2 pan knobs make slight noise when you move them...

I m sure Mackie has higher quality boards.... but these also get broken at some time...

If a Behringer gets broken, you can afford 4 others from the money you saved instead of buying a Mackie pult....
And within the first 2-3 years I got the warranty.

Some people (like me/student) can't afford the real expensive units...

MY AKAI S3000 had to be repaired two times because of havy midi timing problems....
And I would say AKAI is one of the better class units..

So is price = quality ? no

okay if your equipment needs to work also flooded by "beer" I would def. recommend you a Behringer, as it will be cheaper to replace...
(normally this is not under warranty)

<< joke mode on >>
"Ah I bought a Lex 960L"
"now after some beer getted inside the unit it doesn't work properly"
"Shit man, I thought I bought a quality product"
<< joke mode off >>

LOL

[hifiboom]

Hi hifiboom,

I have just listened to your test regarding the Quantec comparison and unfortunately the V-Verb lacks alot of spatial information and density compared to the Quantec - infact its quite different. It sounds like the algorithm used on the test is either a mono->stereo algorithm or have a smaller room setting.

But I agree that only 0.1% would buy the Quantec reverb - but I would The V-Verb is a good deal.

Cheers

Hi warp69,

nice to have some objective forum members here which do not attack me at any time...

this was not a perfect 1:1 recreation of the Quantec Algorithmus.
I just tuned one factory preset at about 2 minutes to get near the sound....
And I think I came very close. Remember there are about 15-30 parameters depending on the algo...
Its not to easy to exactly match things to an exactly same sounding file...

But it also wont be that easy to make a 480L exactly sound the same as Quantec and the other way...

Also consider that I downloaded the Dry sound as MP3 from Quantec homepage which may lead an slightly other sounding result...

Also the dry/mix ratio may not be perfect matching... I just listen to the original file and than tried to tune it a little bit...

I can make the V-Verb sound even more behind the speakers (deep sounding?)than the Quantec....
and it is much more Flexible than a Yardstick which only have a few algos and parameters...

I'll upload some other comaprison as soon as I can....

An also keep in mind the price difference between a Quantec and a V-Verb and that you won't get analog in/out + no 2 fully independent stereo reverb units.

The V-Verb is a bargain.
From which view you look at it, it doesn't matter.

first the fact that it does only cost 130 € and second that it competes the highest class reverb units....

[Sammas]

is better than other units that you have never heard or directly compared them too.

Oh that is not right I have heard some of the better class reverb units.... PCM81 , PCM90 ....

but I do not own...and this won't change

what would be a difference if I would own the Quantec Yardstick, I would just be able to run the dry sound through the unit on my own.......
and now tell me where the difference is between downloading the processed sound or do the processing on my own.

do you believe digital transfer (downloading a sound file) will make the file sound more worse?
Fuzzy logic...

Tell me what a serious comparing would look like if you would do it...
And not only critizise what I did.
I am the one how did all the work, uploading it and make it possible for others to listen to some audio examples.
And I know that there are kvr users out there which are thankful for this.

Why don't you go on and put in some PCM91 or Lexicon processed sounds.

Get a little more constructive instead of destructive...

Do you think I will be sad if the V-Verb does not deliver the same quality as the higher end units?

Come we don't have to loose anything.

Digital transfers? They probably don't change a thing, but how is this for contradictary... You are claiming that the V-Verb is excellent, yet the demos on the behringer page are hideous at best. If I had to make a choice given just those demo's, I'd say the V-Verb was a hunk of junk. Yet at the same time you are using the demo's of the Yardstick as an example for comparison... like they are an accurate representation of what the unit can do. It wouldn't be the first time the bunch of presets suck terribly.

Ummmm...dude. Are you read what you write? At the same time you claim that behringer demo is crap and that behringer is hunk of junk and this is your conclusion by demo on webpage and yet at the same time you claim this: "Yet at the same time you are using the demo's of the Yardstick as an example for comparison... like they are an accurate representation of what the unit can do."

WTF? So how do you get idea that behringer is hunk of junk if you believe that you can't judge unit by some demo(your way of thinking about yardstick). Please i wont argue with you or flame or whatever. I just can't belive how people can be fooled (in this case by demo of both products) and how they change statements....

So either you are in "i think behringer is bad because it is cheap" elitistic bandwagon or you are not clear with yourself in giving opinion.

What is Yardstick anyway


Ummm maybe my english is bad (i am sure it is bad esp. when typing but...)

Ok man... I guess that post went over your head.

Thats exactly it! My point was that you cannot accurately gauge the performance of a unit by demo's on the website alone.

I'll put it as simply as I can. The demo's of the V-Verb suck, yet Hifi has posted examples that sound better... So whats to say the demo's of the Quantec don't suck in comparison to what the real unit can actually do? Hardly grounds for a conclusive comparison now is it.

[Sammas]

Code: Select all

Hell. I just fired up my KSP-8 and mimic'ed some of the sounds that behringer has representing the V-verb, on their website... Not even close, if I were to make a decision from that alone I wouldn't use the V-Verb to add reverb to elevator music. Fair comparison, no? According to you it is. 

of course it is a fair comparison ...

So thats game, set, match then. Why do I need to post anything? Given your methods of "comparison" I've already proven for myself that the V-Verb is sub-par prosumer gear.

Just waiting for the backflip.

[hifiboom]

Code: Select all

Hell. I just fired up my KSP-8 and mimic'ed some of the sounds that behringer has representing the V-verb, on their website... Not even close, if I were to make a decision from that alone I wouldn't use the V-Verb to add reverb to elevator music. Fair comparison, no? According to you it is. 

of course it is a fair comparison ...

So thats game, set, match then. Why do I need to post anything? Given your methods of "comparison" I've already proven for myself that the V-Verb is sub-par prosumer gear.

Just waiting for the backflip.

no more backflip ...

just shut this thread down,
It doesn't make to much sense for me to spend my time dicussing with some KVR members that only like to argue about everything ...
if I look back the 10 pages of this thread, half of the posts is "shit on that Behringer... cheap crap." Only a few interested what sound comes out of the box...

[Sammas]

Code: Select all

Hell. I just fired up my KSP-8 and mimic'ed some of the sounds that behringer has representing the V-verb, on their website... Not even close, if I were to make a decision from that alone I wouldn't use the V-Verb to add reverb to elevator music. Fair comparison, no? According to you it is. 

of course it is a fair comparison ...

So thats game, set, match then. Why do I need to post anything? Given your methods of "comparison" I've already proven for myself that the V-Verb is sub-par prosumer gear.

Just waiting for the backflip.

no more backflip ...

just shut this thread down,
It doesn't make to much sense for me to spend my time dicussing with some KVR members that only like to argue about everything ...
if I look back the 10 pages of this thread, half of the posts is "shit on that Behringer... cheap crap." Only a few interested what sound comes out of the box...

But on the other hand they all swear on crappy sounding VSTs... a parise them to heaven..

Who is swearing on vst's? Weren't you the one that based the majority of your comparison's on free impulses for VST plugin's?

Thats funny!

We are interested in what sounds come out of this box. We aren't interested in reviews that make outrageous claims that hold no merit because they are based on rediculous comparisons.

Perhaps it is time to remove this thread. Credibility it has not.

[Jason Brian Merrill]

okay yoda

but anyway, if you are going to judge boxes, either realworld vs. realworld, or demo vs demo.... you cant interchange them...

I know that behringer has a bad rap, but they rock for price/performance, and im sure without even listening that this unit that it is well worth the price, probably more so than something 4 times the price, just judging by behringers track record.

also judging by behringers track record, i would say thouroughly test the unit before the return time limit is up.

[SongMonkey]

Simple. Do a KSP8 vs. V-Verb shootout. Pick a good, deep, beefy snare sound, match algos as best you can...and may the best box win.

Easy.

[SRR]

Dang, should I take back my Lexicon MX200 I just got at guitar center for $160, (this is the point I think outloud) but I do like USB/VST setup of the MX200, but I like controling 30 parameters, but I don't like behringer for some of their practices, but its not like I have a huge problem with their technology implemetations results. I am torn.

[kmonkey]

I will post some examples when i put my fingers on unit. Anyway most of problems in this topic comes from a bit stupid thread name. Yes i must admit that. It should be something like "i found pretty underrated reverb" or "i found realy nice and cheap hw reverb, check this". Naming thread like lexicon killer is not nice and not true. Heck anything with "killer" is not nice.

Gotta leave now. Seeya

[hifiboom]

I will post some examples when i put my fingers on unit. Anyway most of problems in this topic comes from a bit stupid thread name. Yes i must admit that. It should be something like "i found pretty underrated reverb" or "i found realy nice and cheap hw reverb, check this". Naming thread like lexicon killer is not nice and not true. Heck anything with "killer" is not nice.

Gotta leave now. Seeya

you are right, I forget the

"Quantec Killer thing"



People on this forum keep telling me what I can do, how I have to compare units and how to name MY THREAD, which I created and that do reflect MY opinion ...

Most off you do NOT own the UNIT and you seem to be not able to judge from any audio demo how good or bad a reverb is...

Some also keep telling that a 1 hour TC Electronic M3000 demo CD may not give the ability to judge over a unit. (?)

Some will not be able to judge over a unit, even if they own it...


And at least the "You cannot-compare that to this"-thing really sucks...

I can and I'll do ... and it is legal ...

The "Prove-it"-appeal also suck... will you need an electrical layer of the hardware + the matematical algo, so that you can prove that they sound the same...

metally dazed ... or what?

[snooky]

YOUR THREAD - YOUR BEHGRINGER -YOUR COMPARISONS - blahblahblah - you don't have much to say now have you?!?!?

you keep going round saying you can't do this and that as it suits you, you're a fanboy, an irritating fanboy to say the least, comming by as a 12 year old, for no reason! just chill and make detailed A/B hardware to hardware comparisons, not demos vs hardware etcetc...

I do think that the MX200 seems interesting as it is, being a vst compatible box et al.

how does that one sound compared to the behringer?