XT Software

Z3R0T0N1N · Post by **Z3R0T0N1N** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:43 am

jackson wrote:

MartynM · Post by **MartynM** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:34 pm

My jack problem seems to be sorted! I got some great help over at the ubuntustudio forum from Metasymbol. (is that you Lump?)

It seems I was trying to enable more ins and outs than my card actually has, leaving inputs and outputs set to default sorted it completely. I now have 64 samples of latency, which is about as good as I've ever managed to get on this card, just on the stock ubuntu kernal too.

Very happy.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:43 am

No offence.. but how do you make a mistake like that?

Lump · Post by **Lump** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:41 am

MartynM wrote:My jack problem seems to be sorted! I got some great help over at the ubuntustudio forum from Metasymbol. (is that you Lump?)

Yes it was me - in any other forums my nick is metasymbol - but here the "Lump" it was a mistake.

Nice that it works now

[edit] don't miss to make a "solved" notice in the ubuntuforum

MartynM · Post by **MartynM** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:14 pm

Amberience wrote:No offence.. but how do you make a mistake like that?

It's not as obvious as it might sound, I had to set it up so there were no inputs or outputs selected, and just leave the thing set to default. A bit counter to what I was expecting to have to do, a classic case of expecting difficulty first and not seeing the wood for the trees.

It just goes to show really, if a dimwit like me can get a Linux os running ok, it really can't be that hard. Gimme a break, when I started making music as a guitar player, all I had to worry about was a few knobs on my marshall, and even then the one marked 'presence' gave me a bit of a headache. Now look what we have to deal with!

@ Lump, I tried thanking you last night on the ubuntu forum, even typed out a gushing monologue, just before posting it they took the forum down for maintainance

I'll hop on over there now and sort that out.

Earz

M

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:46 pm

I'm scared of Linux

MartynM · Post by **MartynM** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:23 am

Amberience wrote: I'm scared of Linux

You should be! I had a little look at Knoppix when it came out, thought it looked interesting, had another go about a year later. Then I had a friend help me install a dual boot Fedora install which i used for a while before getting frustrated and forgetting about it for quite a while. Now, ubuntu is different (imho) I recon my mum could install it, no joke!

Little by little Linux has been drawing me into it's clutches, I said I'd just try it, thats all. After a while you just want more. Stay away from it man, just say no! It'll get you in the end, everybody thinks it won't happen to them, but thats how it starts.

fake · Post by **fake** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:41 pm

@ MartynM, glad you got it sorted.

There are no other ways of getting low latency on linux other than jack. Jack is far better than ASIO for latency and is more powerful than rewire for routing.

It does take a while to get acustomed to it though as you have to think about the routing, its a bit like wiring up hardware.

I use DeMuDi and have "nicked" the Ubuntu Studio Launcher and used together with set-rlimits you can set the priorities with the set-rlimits.conf file. The .conf file on the Ubuntu Studio site has some settings included so you can easily see how it works.
Unfortunatley it scans the /usr/share/applications folder (the ubuntu default) to gather its information from the .desktop files!
But, all you need to do is add some .desktop files yourself matching your apps, just edit one already there and rename it.

Jorgen, have a look at Rosegarden and Ardour, both are full jack clients.

fake

jorgen · Post by **jorgen** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:16 pm

There are no other ways of getting low latency on linux other than jack. Jack is far better than ASIO for latency and is more powerful than rewire for routing.

Jack is using ALSA, so Im not sure what you mean?

Jack is not a driver, ALSA is a driver. I can get low latencies even with OSS emulation on ALSA.

cheers
jorgen

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:14 pm

Well, I'm all set with Jack (thanks to QJackCtrl), ALSA or OSS. Currently running at 128 samples (which is absolutely fine for my needs). MIDI keyboard works fine too. Currently using Ubuntu.

"I'm ready for my close-up Mr Aase!"

edit - jorgen: So JACK is kinda like ASIO4ALL, in a way? i.e., it just a 'wrapper' that accesses the core input/output of the currently installed sound drivers?

fake · Post by **fake** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:14 pm

Yes, alsa is the driver but on its own it performs just like the native wdm drivers with around 200ms latency but not good enough for a DAW!

Try and get it to work stable at 1.2ms latency in alsa, you can't, that's why jack was developed. If used with a non standard low latency audio kernel it works well and can out perform ASIO, plus you then have the jack routing options.
Don't forget most Linux distro's are NOT configured for audio, they are for basic desktop use.
Other threads and running programs get priority over audio so with alsa on its own you will get dropouts and interuptions in audio.

Try a basic install of Ubuntu for instance. Now try and use jack set at 5.8ms and an audio app LMMS, crap ain't it with dropouts galore (xruns in linux terms) and not very useable. Now try with a modified kernel and rt-limits and you can go as low as 0.726 @ 16 frames without much problems, and yes .726ms!

Unless a native Linux ASIO driver is developed then Jack for audio and dssi for softsynths seems to have become accepted as the standard way for Linux audio.

Just like Receptor in order to get Windows coded vst's running you will ned to use a vst wrapper under wine as at the moment there is NO other way to do it. You could integrate dssi, a good move, so that dssi stuff is available to xt2 but that still uses a wrapper.

The two main wrappers in use are fst 1.8 and dssi-vst, there is also jack-fst, xfst and a few others but they all do basically the same thing. Fst is quicker at drawing the gui and most vst's seem to work in it, dssi-vst is slower but possibly more stable as if it crashes it just crashed that app.

You could of course modify or develop your own wrapper like Receptor and just like Receptor not all vst's will work!

I hope some of this helps you.

fake

jens · Post by **jens** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:10 pm

fake wrote:Now try with a modified kernel and rt-limits and you can go as low as 0.726 @ 16 frames without much problems, and yes .726ms!

bernhardtjeff · Post by **bernhardtjeff** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:42 pm

I'm scared of Linux

yeah, you should be. i tried to install opensuse on my external hard drive after using the live disc fine this weekend. when i tried to boot, it would get to grub and just lock up. then i couldn't get back to windows. i could only get to my bios or a blank screen that said "grub." had to reinstall from the system restore disc. fortunately everything was backed up so i didn't lose anything. thanks, linux!

jorgen · Post by **jorgen** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:24 pm

Try and get it to work stable at 1.2ms latency in alsa, you can't, that's why jack was developed. If used with a non standard low latency audio kernel it works well and can out perform ASIO, plus you then have the jack routing options.

ALSA (the default audio i/o driver for Jack) is as good as the kernel (linux). Patching the kernel makes ALSA perform even better, its not Jack that makes it perform better. Jack sits on top of the audio driver an lets you do all sorts of cool routing and lets mulitple apps run audio at the same time thru the same audio driver.

I dont get audio dropouts with alsa on Ubuntu when running audio (ALSA/OSS) engine in high-priority, when running in normal-priority I do.

Now try with a modified kernel and rt-limits and you can go as low as 0.726 @ 16 frames without much problems, and yes .726ms!

havent tried it yet, but sounds really cool

cheers
jorgen

Lump · Post by **Lump** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:20 pm

bernhardtjeff wrote:
I'm scared of Linux
yeah, you should be. i tried to install opensuse on my external hard drive after using the live disc fine this weekend. when i tried to boot, it would get to grub and just lock up. then i couldn't get back to windows. i could only get to my bios or a blank screen that said "grub." had to reinstall from the system restore disc. fortunately everything was backed up so i didn't lose anything. thanks, linux!

Sorry bernhardtjeff, shit happens

I have installed SUSE hundred times or more on many systems, and this was never happend to me.

Why don't you ask at www.jacklab.net/phpBB2 , you're allready subscribed?
A grub (every linux) problem is EASY to fix with some help from linux community, but you have to ask.

to be scared is an emotion, with the know-how this will disapear. linux is not a monster, it is an OS which is working on million of computers

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