Why is Logic Pro only on macs

[mojkarma]

And I won't even reply to mojkarma's clueless "you can't rearrange mixer channels" blurb anymore. You can't, in the trackmixer, true. But you can, in the environment, easily.
Nothing less than in Cubase, but MORE functionality.

Sascha, you use IMO far to oft a very unkindly hard tone absolutely needles. I'm not stupid. I know what can be done in which mixer.
You can move things in the environment(mixer), but there you cannot drag/paste effects from one channel to another. This is a very often used task in the mixing process and logic offers this only in the trackmixer. Why should I spend the time to configure the order of tracks in the environment, when I have to switch to the trackmixer to copy the eq from track1 to track2, or to change the order of the eq and comp on track 14. And midichannels are also part of my arrangment and the mixingprocess and they are not shown in the environment mixer. You are talking about one advance that logic has over cubase (and that is not the topic at all but you never forget to mention logic) and forget to mention other things.

If you can, please try to be next time a littlebit more kindly. I guess I have some valid points and arguments.

[beej]

Once again. If my Logic is setup with 128 audiotracks and 64 busses and 32 audioinstruments and 32 aux channels, I will see them all in the environment on the audiolevel.

Yes, but do you *really* need 128 audio channels? Mine is set at a useful practical maximum (usually 32 or 48). Although the way I set mine up, you could have forinstance 128 audio tracks, you'd just have to scroll to the right, but that would be the case in *any* non-adaptive virtual mixer of that size.

And as you mention, you *don't* have to have all those channels in your environment mixer layer. You can leave (say) the first 32) in your audio mixer layer, and easily move anything else to another layer. They are there and accessible if need be, but they won't clutter up your view and you'll never see them in the environment mixer. I wouldn't work like that, but the option is there.

The very static-ness of the environment mixer is something I really like - I like knowing where my fifth audio track will be on the mixer, versus ones that adapt to the arrange page - I always find I'm hunting for which channels are what, especially with larger songs.

Once again, Logic gives the user the choice as to how to setup your system, which for me is probably the main reason I went Logic way back in the early nineties. Some people see flexibility as "opportunity", others see it as "unnecessary complication". Logic does tend to favour the first type, although has made signficant (if not yet complete) strides towards satisfying the secone type of user, since Apple came on board.

Now, go and read my first and this post again. And, BTW, don't forget to tell beej that he is also not a pro and doesn't know very much about logic because he is also using the environment mixer as a mixer, instead "for routing things, setting up objects, etc."

No, I know where Sascha's coming from, we each have our beef's with Logic, and we don't agree on everything, but we do respond when people post frustrations about Logic that are more in the "user-error" camp than the "Logic problem" camp. You'd probably get a better response if you posted with the tone of "this feature frustrates me with Logic..." rather than "Logic is shit because of...*, because that's how it comes out sometimes.

[mojkarma]

Now, please help a stupid guy who is talking nonsense and explain him how to put the midichannel 8 (playing the bass from his MotifES) next to his Battery drum channels in the mixer.

Create a fader object, set the output, move it next to your Battery channel.

Should I do that every time for all my midi output gear I use in a song: two keyboards, one module and some midicontrolled hardware effects?
All that just for the ability to reorder channelstrips, without being able to copy/paste/reorder my effects in the channel and without being able to see the tracknames (just objectnames)?
If you like it using that way, do it but don't use the word nonsense anymore in connection with my name or my post.
At the end: we are talking about logic 7.

[beej]

What do you use MIDI faders for, out of interest? Using MIDI volume to balance your MIDI gear is not really advisable, as it just lowers the dynamic range (ie your volume gets lower, the noise level stays the same).

If you're mixing MIDI gear, I recommend either using an external mixer, or recording your MIDI parts into Logic and mixing them as audio, which has several advantages.

[mojkarma]

double post

[mojkarma]

What do you use MIDI faders for, out of interest? Using MIDI volume to balance your MIDI gear is not really advisable, as it just lowers the dynamic range (ie your volume gets lower, the noise level stays the same).

If you're mixing MIDI gear, I recommend either using an external mixer, or recording your MIDI parts into Logic and mixing them as audio, which has several advantages.

I record my midi gear as audio into logic before a final mix of course. But before that I like to make some volume adjustments to hear how the final song will sound during the songcreating stage. Besides that, I control over midi some other parameters of my outboard gear/effects. It is not a big deal, but I have mentioned other aspects where the trackmixer is far more suitable for mixing purposes than the environment. (In logic7, because logic5 misses these features)

[Sascha Franck]

i pointed that out in my post too, didnt i? let me check...yes, i did. please read the entire post before posting caps lock comments, thx

Yeah, sorry, my apologies.

[beej]

Ok, cool.

[Sascha Franck]

You are talking about one advance that logic has over cubase (and that is not the topic at all but you never forget to mention logic) and forget to mention other things.

Well, as you were talking about dragging FX, there's no need to even mention Cubase. It simply doesn't allow for that in any of its mixers, so I'm not sure why you're trying to point this out as a disadvantage in Logic, whereas it's at least MILES ahead of Cubase regarding this.
I mean, really, you CAN drag'n'drop FX in Logic. Now please don't start telling me it's a disadvantage over Cubase, just because you can't do it in the environment, whereas any similar functionality isn't even remotely existing in Cubase at all.

Should I do that every time for all my midi output gear I use in a song: two keyboards, one module and some midicontrolled hardware effects?

Yes, you should, in case you want a user configurable mixer.
In case you don't, use the track mixer. Then you're just in Cubase land. With the difference being that Cubase only offers ONE method, whereas Logic offers at least TWO.

[LarryAW]

Why wont it come to pc.

Because macs are better

There you go. The sheer arrogance of Apple and MAC users. I'm just a hobbyist, but if Apple controlled the entire music industry, I would find another hobby. The current MAC vs PC commercial airing continuously in my area is the perfect example. I wouldn't use a MAC if Jesus Christ paid me a personal visit and asked me to. And, it would have been cheaper for me to switch to MAC's and used Logic. So, it has never been a cost issue.

If Apple decided to port Logic back to Windows, this is one Windows' user who wouldn't use it no matter what. Audiomidi offered me a deep-discount on Logic for Windows after Apple purchased it. I told audiomidi not no, but hell no.

To each his own.

There's my return flame.

[beej]

It was a joke, chap!

[jones-y]

Now, please help a stupid guy who is talking nonsense and explain him how to put the midichannel 8 (playing the bass from his MotifES) next to his Battery drum channels in the mixer.

Create a fader object, set the output, move it next to your Battery channel.

Should I do that every time for all my midi output gear I use in a song: two keyboards, one module and some midicontrolled hardware effects?
All that just for the ability to reorder channelstrips, without being able to copy/paste/reorder my effects in the channel and without being able to see the tracknames (just objectnames)?
If you like it using that way, do it but don't use the word nonsense anymore in connection with my name or my post.
At the end: we are talking about logic 7.

Just out of curiosity, why do you so passionately want to reorder channelstrips?

Are you trying to group e.g. all your drum channelstrips, even though they originate from different sources (hardware synths and plugins)??? That's understandable.

Try this: Create a folder track in the arrange. Open it up to view its contents. Place (copies of) whichever tracks (without their regions - leave them at the top level for clarity) you want to group into the folder. Open up the adaptive mixer and set it to contents link (or whatever its called). Go back to the arrange and select the folder. Presto! You can create as many folders as you like.

You know, there was a time, not too long ago, when Logic didn't even HAVE a track mixer.... Perfect? No. Crap? No. Benefits and drawbacks? Yes. Just like every other piece of software, and for that matter every other product that humans produce.

As a sidebar, I used to get so frustrated about using multitimbral plugins in Logic, until I learned that there was a super-easy way to do it. Simply put the plug in Inst 1, Change Inst 2's channel assignment (in the parameters box - on the arrange page) to point to Inst 1, then change the MIDI channel on Inst 2 to channel 2. So now the channelstrip labelled Inst 2 actually plays Inst 1, MIDI channel 2. Simple as pie. And if you look at the Track Mixer, it appears as if Inst 2 has a second instance of the same plugin loaded, when, in fact, there is only one instance loaded. Now, if only Logic could automatically divide the audio stream generated by the plugin in such an arrangement...

What I find in Logic is that there is usually a simple (or simpler) way to do what you're doing, but it may take you years to discover and incorporate it. And then you go "doh!"...

This place would be great if everybody wasn't so damn arrogant and confrontational. All the good data gets lost in a sea of noise.

[jones-y]

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may05/a ... cnotes.htm

A window in Contents Link mode will always display the contents of an object selected in another window, if it is capable of displaying that kind of data. For example, a Contents Linked Arrange window will display the contents of any Folder selected in another Arrange window or Event list. A Contents Linked Track Mixer window will display the channel strips of tracks inside any Folder selected in an Arrange window — a great way to set up submixes.

Hope this helps mojkarma

[LarryAW]

It was a joke, chap!

So was mine. Some PC user had to flame him back, and I thought it might as well be me.

[beej]

Yep, the ordering in the track mixer will reflect the ordering in the arrange window, so just move tracks around in the arrange window (or folder) to reorder the track mixer...