right- quick question about legality..

[learjeff]

agadis, most likely the permission to use the MIDI loop royalty free is in the product's license agreement. If you didn't buy the product, you aren't party to that agreement, so you can't use it without risk. You would not be guilty of a criminal violation but a civil one (they'd have to sue you; the police won't be sending the SWAT team).

Atomsplitter, yes, you need their permission.

One option is to contact the copyright holder and find out what kind of compensation they would expect.

The other option is to use a "mechanical license". This is a streamlined way to get the rights to reproduce or cover copyrighted material and pay a set fee. However, this set fee was set up for exactly that: reproducing or covering the whole tune. It's not exorbitantly expensive for that purpose (roughly $40 for 500 copies, where $10 of that is a fee to the agent and the other $30 goes to the copyright holder). But for sampling purposes, where you're only using a tiny amount of the song and you generally use many sources for a single song, it's cost prohibitive.

It would be nice if they could work out a better mechanical licensing system for sampling, but it's a more complicated issue. Should you pay per second of sampled material, regardless of how prominent it is in the song? And do you pay per second that you sample, or per second that you use in your song?

I don't know how artists that do sample-based music generally handle this now, but I bet it's a matter of independent negotiation with each music source.

It's unfortunate that the righteous path isn't more well-lit here. I imagine most amateur and semi-pro (and aspiring pro) artists use material without getting permission, but that could leave you losing all the revenues from a release but still owing all the production costs, should it come to court. Of course, that doesn't happen unless you're lucky enough to get noticed.

Personally, I'd tend to shy away from an approach where, if my wildest dreams come true, then I'm screwed. But I'm not a big risk taker.

PS: I'm not an attorney, just a guy in a diner who happens to have looked into copyrights a bit, and more related to traditional song production than sampling.

[BertKoor]

I don't know how artists that do sample-based music generally handle this now, but I bet it's a matter of independent negotiation with each music source.

How all the other artists do? By hiring a lawyer to take care of that HAHA!! If you're signed by a big label, then the label has the contacts to make it happen.

I swear I heard a song lately in the charts that was supposed to have a Michael Jackson sample stuck in it. But they had to do a mock-up instead because they couldn't get the sample cleared (or at least at a profitable charge.) I think it was the successor of the Madonna doing Abba thingie, and it didn't sound anything like Billie Jean anymore to stay out of trouble.

It's unfortunate that the righteous path isn't more well-lit here.

<This> is Google's first answer (by the BBC) on "how to clear a sample"

[learjeff]

Excellent post, Bert! Especially that BBC link.

[DWb]

It would be nice if they could work out a better mechanical licensing system for sampling, but it's a more complicated issue. Should you pay per second of sampled material, regardless of how prominent it is in the song? And do you pay per second that you sample, or per second that you use in your song?

Yeah, it is something that could do with being looked into, though. I'd guess that the current legal setup doesn't actually make much money for the copyright owners (still less the original musicians), since most people who are major enough to have to worry about getting caught for sampling can afford to call in a competent session player to rerecord it thus not paying anything. Meanwhile the whole music scene either suffers as peoples' creative options are restricted because they don't want to end up with a potential hit that they can't legally release... as usual the only people who win are the lawyers.

The other annoying thing is that the tacit 'lets not bother going after small people who we couldn't sue much money out of anyway' could really use legally formalising to allow you to do more or less whatever the hell you want on a run of less than (say) 400 or something. This allows more underground dance acts to experiment and keep the music fresh and interesting, which in turn leads to more mainstream dance acts making big money for the record company ie everyone wins.

[learjeff]

DWb, read the link Bert posted above. Getting a session player to record a sample doesn't cut it. You have to abandon the lick or whatever and come up with something original for the session player to record.

BTW, as the link above is from BBC, they point to the UK agency for mechanical rights. A US firm doing the same thing is Harry Fox Agency, with you can find on-line at songfile.com.

You can use that to get mechanical rights (as I mentioned above), or just to find out who holds the copyrights. As Bert's link points out, there are usually at least two copyright holders: the author (performing arts copyright, covering the composition) and the publisher (soundrecording copyright, covering the actual recording).

Read that stuff carefully. It's a really good post.

[liars&ashes]

[q)Thats a great point. '100% Copyright Free' is a farce. I dont know many dance / loops / drums CD that can truthfully make that claim, and I know MANY that should be banished to the deepest darkest pits of warez hell!

People think because they buy samples with a little sticker on say' Royalty Free' that they are somehow alright. Not the case, sorry guys. So the only real way to be 100% clean is to make your own samples using live recordings or synthesis. End of story.

This really is what bugs me about the whole sampling lark. I understand people being against warez software users, totally. But when you read the license on your typical loops CD, and you realise that some arse hole has just sampled his vinyl collection and now claiming it as his own! Kind of pisses me off, sorry!

----Hint = stop shopping for $5-$10 discount sample dvdrs on ebay. If you're buying a cd or dvd full of "vinyl breaks", then uh yeah, chances are they are illegally sampled. Seriously, Sony isn't going to put out a loop cd with illegal samples on it, they have too much to lose, and so do all the real loop/sample making companies these days.

Jeff

[Atomsplitter]

Thanks for the info everyone, i guess i will just leave the tracks that use james brown samples as unreleased for now then unless i get signed then the label can sort that out hehe

[Atomsplitter]

Oh and probably a stupid question but does making the tracks free effect the sample payment status, if its free to download do you still have to pay the original artist?

[BertKoor]

if its free to download do you still have to pay the original artist?

I think so, yes... Not a good business model

[jackson]

I have hundreds of house records crammed full of uncleared samples and trust me, none of them, except the big names, have cleared anything.

As has been said quite clearly already:

1. It's only going to matter if you make it big
2. Chances are that's not going to happen
3. If it does, your label or privately hired copyright attorney will take care of it for you
4. In the meantime, don't let it worry you. Go write your blatantly copyright-infringing masterpiece. Get it pressed and go DJ it out at your local bingo parlour you call a club. Nothing is going to happen.

[xsub]

For me personally, I don't ever intend to go mainstream, nor ever sell my music... I will use any samples I want, any-way I want, but it's just for personal use and/or giving my friends the music.. But that's just me.

If I was going onto a record label, I'd probably just use less samples from others work, but still would probably rip some drums out and edit them. Of course, vocals and so on I wouldn't really bother with...

[xsub]

Just to note, that's my attitude towards it, and I don't encourage others to follow this path, and to be honest, I actually create my own samples because it's fun.. If I'm feeling lazy and the tons of free samples I already have don't cut it, I'll go into sound forge and rip some out of commercial songs.

[Max el Belga]

2 days ago on BBC World (Top Gear) they used the Vomit sample of the Lobotomy pack. I wonder if they asked permission !

[learjeff]

FYI, in the US, public radio doesn't need permission to broadcast copyrighted material.