KVR Audio

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:58 pm

OH FFS!...

I did say twiddle TO TASTE didn't I?

Here... now you got me advertising someone else's product...
http://www.admiralquality.com/mp3/Pro53XModDemo.mp3

(Forgive me Geddy.)

tony tony chopper · Post by **tony tony chopper** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:04 pm

now you got me advertising someone else's product...

Instead of advertising your own with a demo of your own product?

Btw this doesn't sound like a faster LFO than in my example. It also sounds like FM, so I'll try to post a demo of this using FM.

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:11 pm

I CANT DO A SCAMP DEMO WITHOUT THE SOUND YOU'RE PROCESSING. It's an EFFECT, it has to be adjusted to suit whatever sound you put into it. If you'd just turn the Env Level down a tiny bit on the test you did, it would sound good (or, better at least. If you TRY to make this sound bad... it will!)

And it IS FM!!! Or rather, CFM (cutoff frequency mod).

And it IS a faster LFO. Its so fast, it's sonic!

When you say "using FM" what are you talking about?

I must admit I don't get you loops of froot people... seem to want everything pre-canned. "Do it for me!" Man... why don't you just go listen to some records and leave the music making to muscians who aren't afraid of adjusting a parameter or two?

Anyway, I'm done with this. Like it or not, that's what Filter X-mod is.

Philistines!

jmh · Post by **jmh** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:12 pm

Regarding the topic... One of the earlier appearances for the term I could think of was JX-3P. There, Cross Mod is a title for the knob that has settings for Off, Sync and Metal. From what I can remember, the same term appeared on a number of synths with the same meaning. (Somebody got any info or educated guesses on how Metal differs from Sync? My JX is unavailable at the moment.)

However, what Stefan has been after is a killer feature indeed...

One thing that totally rocks in ABL Pro is the ability to do audio rate modulation. You can do the most wonderfull buzzing, gargling, whatever weird noises by that alone. And it sounds damn nice doing something like modulating the filter's cutoff with an oscillator. It's not *that* far away from how it sounds on a beastly analog monster, though not completely *there* if you know what I mean.

Most bass sounds I use nowadays come from it, and one reason is that you can do sounds where the cutoff is modulated at an audio rate plus the modulation follows the pitch. Damn impressive.

There, advertisement for another product

And if Poly-Ana delivers that too... DAMN

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:15 pm

Heh, I have a JX-3P. The Metal is a ring mod I think. Used to effect in the JX-3P's "Chime" preset. Sync is sync, not "Cross Mod" at all (though I guess you could argue that it's crossing from one osc to the other... though sync isn't modulation, per say, more of a retriggering.) And there is no audio-rate X-mod of the filter on the '3P, only Env and LFO. (The LF in LFO stands for LOW FREQUENCY... i.e. sub-sonic. It's "cross mod" when the filter cutoff or another oscillator's pitch it's modded from a regular (non LFO) oscillator, usually in tune with the pitch of the rest of the sound (though not necessarily.))

And actually, the JX-3P was a later appearance of the term. I think "X-mod" came from the late 70's Oberheims, if not earlier. And on the Prophet 5 (1977) it was called "Poly-Mod". Roland was stealing a term they really didn't have a right to use there, as there's no inter-oscillator FM or osc-filter CFM on the 3P. (IF ONLY!!!)

Minimoogs do this too. Osc 3 can be an LFO, or an audio osc. And you can mod the filter from it.

And jmh, that's the filter X-mod I'm talking about!!! Exactly what you describe!!!

Cheers, and sorry I'm getting pissed off, but I really do try to educate around here and some people are just too stubborn to soak it in.

foosnark · Post by **foosnark** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:25 pm

MiniMogueVA does that too, if it's what I think you're saying (modulating filter cutoff at audio rates). It's quite useful.

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:26 pm

foosnark wrote:MiniMogueVA does that too, if it's what I think you're saying (modulating filter cutoff at audio rates). It's quite useful.

Heh, I typed in that edit just as your post appeared,

Yea verily!

tony tony chopper · Post by **tony tony chopper** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:29 pm

I CANT DO A SCAMP DEMO WITHOUT THE SOUND YOU'RE PROCESSING

First, I have no sound to process in the first place, I don't even know what you're talking about, that's why I was asking an audio demo. I don't know, you claim it's a great synthesis method so I was expecting you to have plenty of demo's.

Second, my ex was just a plain saw feeding your own effect.

It took 5 goddamn replies for you to finally post an audio demo of what you call 'growling'.

When you say "using FM" what are you talking about?

standard oscillator FM

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:32 pm

Tony, everybody here but you knows what this is, and what it's good for. It's been a feature of analog synths for as long as there have been analog synths. It started to get left off of cheaper synths in the 80's. And as you point out, it's processor intensive so some of the less-capable VSTis don't offer it.

"Standard oscillator FM" you say? And just who pray tell is the governing body for synthesizer standards? (I need to speak with them.)

And if you "don't even know what I'm talking about" WHY DID YOU COME OUT AND SAY ITS A USELESS FEATURE THAT WOULD ONLY MAKE BAD NOISE?

Great... Now I'M making growling sounds.

ChipCurtis · Post by **ChipCurtis** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:44 pm

The free ARP2600 emulation Arppe2600va has plenty of oscillator cross-mod. And if you don't like the pre-wired configs, you can use the mod matrix to set it up to your taste. Truly wild, gurgling sounds can be made.

TotcProductions · Post by **TotcProductions** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:30 pm

tony tony chopper wrote:
Let's not forget about modulating the filter's CF from an oscillator.

IMHO, if the oscillator is at normal speed, it'll just be useless noise. And if it's at a lower speed, then it's an LFO - which most synths feature.

no no no. You can get some wicked sounds by modulating the filter cutoff with an oscillator in an FM/PM fashion.

tony tony chopper · Post by **tony tony chopper** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:55 pm

I suppose this still isn't growling/gurgling/whatever?

http://www.flstudio.com/gol/GrowlTest_3.mp3

personally I find it as useless as the real growling demo, but maybe it's just me

funkadil · Post by **funkadil** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:17 pm

xhip has osc cross mod i think. and the filter cutoff and res mod.

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:24 pm

tony tony chopper wrote:I suppose this still isn't growling/gurgling/whatever?

http://www.flstudio.com/gol/GrowlTest_3.mp3

personally I find it as useless as the real growling demo, but maybe it's just me

That sounds like it to me (well, it sounds just like the patch I posted.)

There's no accounting for taste. Ta.

TotcProductions · Post by **TotcProductions** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:35 pm

Ok, here's a few mp3 examples of cross modulation done in the !j Developement Ninja Vsti:

Springer

Bass 1

Bass 2

Industrial Piano

Peace

Any vst's out there that have a cross-mod option for oscs?