for future eXT: "Combi Tracks"

[plastique]

this almost brings us back to plastique idea of a stack track, but actually it could just be an option on a folder track to 1) stack or 2) overlay

I thought about that as well, but you wouldn't really want to have folders inside a stacked folder track (just get too overcomplicated then IMO)
But I'm not too sure, just let this idea breathe for a while ....

also, an extra track type would fit better to the single-mode track system like it is right now (i.e. every track type has its own specific purpose) - IMO
folder track -> organisational tool (with grouping of tracks)
stack(overlay) track -> visual tool (with grouping of tracks)

[plastique]

one more pic and then I'll let it go:

[Caleb]

Another track type? Cor blimey - that will cause some discussion.

As long as I have a way of getting multiple tracks overlaid in some fashion so that I can program one in relation to another I think I'll be happy.

Particularly when programming drum parts and bass parts it's so beneficial to have the other tracks visible as a guide. But it would apply to any programming really like programming parts to line up with an audio recording or a midi part that will remain non-quantized.

I like the idea of using a key to cycle through the z-layers because realistically, I think it would be wise only to be able to edit 1 layer at a time - yes?

Anyway - great thread. I'm really glad this is being discussed.

Regards
Caleb

[AllenPOPO]

this almost brings us back to plastique idea of a stack track, but actually it could just be an option on a folder track to 1) stack or 2) overlay (showing the other tracks in the bkgnd)

cheers
jorgen

i really like plastiques thoughts on this and good job on the visuals--this threads been busy since i last stopped by

perhaps it would be neat to have a option for folder tracks--but what kind of system would you use to distinguish stack or overlay folders?

how could you easily identify layers of say, midi over midi????

at any rate maybe we're on to something here....

[plastique]

OK, third idea (and I think this is the coolest one, probably because it is a mixture of idea 1 & 2 ...):

basically:
- every track has the ability to become a stack(overlay) track, so no extra track type needed, only kept as a design concept

in detail:
- if a track header A is dragged onto another track header B (at this certain point the cursor should change), then B changes into a stack track consisting of A and B (like in the 2nd idea), and any next track header dragged there will be dropped inside this stack track and be included (further features apply from the 2nd idea)
- if there are only two tracks left inside a stack track and one of them is dragged to the outside, both tracks become normal tracks again (and the stack track disappears)
- this all is limited to certain track types (audio, midi, marker, envelopes), i.e. where it makes sense of course (and where it is technically possible within the frame of this concept)

This now goes a little away from what the folder tracks do, so not many similarities to find there anymore.

Better, worse ?

For me that's so far the perfect one, especially since it can be realized and accessed very fast in the sequencing environment and wouldn't change how you edit (selected layer is the layer on which you edit).
I'm very curious, jorgen, on how you meant the overlaying in the part editors to work I'm sure this can be done in a similar graphical hierarchical style as well somehow ...

[djsubject]

what a exciting thread this is

[SharkAttack]

Simplicity is good. I think Plastiques last idea is most simple to use/understand. It should also be very visible (like Plastiques examples) that you made a stack. Otherwise you'll get many "my track disappeard" threads

Great ideas!

[Lunch Money]

Plastique, that sounds an awful lot like "no specific track type" now.

It's actually a good idea, working within the "track paradigm" as long as not TOoooo many tracks are added. With your little "tabs", it would get cluttered. I LOVE'em, but there's surely a limit to the number of tracks you could have with that visual method.

It has a few things going for it over the "clip-based" approach, though-- namely, you could have several clips in your "MIDI track" and they'd constitute a "layer" and could all be moved on or off other material in one shot, rather than having to move individual clips.

I don't see why you'd have to have "type A" and "type B" at all, when if moving them together you have "type combination" in the end. Why not just make tracks tracks, and that's it?

That doesn't negate the cool brainstorming going on here. Au contraire, I think that what you came up with can end up being the best of 2 worlds-- a non-specific generic "track" (content being all the indicator you need.. if it has MIDI, it's a MIDI track...) type, but layering entire tracks over one-another and using a "tabbing hierarchy" instead of just moving individual clips that can get lost or disorganized.

Greg

[spacefox]

I don't see why you'd have to have "type A" and "type B" at all, when if moving them together you have "type combination" in the end. Why not just make tracks tracks, and that's it?

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132897

[Lunch Money]

Ugh. I'm not going to read a 6-page thread to reach the conclusion. A bit of clarification is all I beg of you. Ie.,

"Because Jorgen says it won't work in eXT's architecture: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132897" or something.

Or WAS a conclusion even reached in that thread?

[glurgle]

Pesonally Id be happy if I could just multi-select tracks to show in background when working in-track or popup editor...(and its the easiest to code)

At least my music would look good

cheers
jorgen

this idea nails it for me. Gives the visual cues without the mess of accidentally editing something you thought was on the bottom layer.

edit: how about yet-another-track-header-button? A little eye for 'visibility' button.* When a track has visibility on, its visual content shows up as the background (semitransparent overlay?) of any other track you edit. Seems dead simple to me, especially with a button/key shortcut to turn off all overlays.**

* - Is the 'V' key shortcut taken yet?
** - What about Alt+V?

[Caleb]

It's discussions like these and jorgen's input into them that remind me why I still feel committed to the EnergyXT platform for my music production.

Thanks to all.

Regards
Caleb

[plastique]

this idea nails it for me. Gives the visual cues without the mess of accidentally editing something you thought was on the bottom layer.

edit: how about yet-another-track-header-button? A little eye for 'visibility' button.* When a track has visibility on, its visual content shows up as the background (semitransparent overlay?) of any other track you edit. Seems dead simple to me, especially with a button/key shortcut to turn off all overlays.**

Now I understand what the concept was behind this ! I didn't think of this way, sounds actually quite easy to establish and enough to make this feature happen. It won't work for "normal" track display (i.e. non-in-track) though, so that's the (maybe only) compromise

[plastique]

Plastique, that sounds an awful lot like "no specific track type" now.

It's actually a good idea, working within the "track paradigm" as long as not TOoooo many tracks are added. With your little "tabs", it would get cluttered. I LOVE'em, but there's surely a limit to the number of tracks you could have with that visual method.

Either there needs to be a limit, or you need a scrollbar once there are too many layers. I'd prefer the limit as I can't imagine more than - let's say 3 - overlayed tracks to be useful.

I don't see why you'd have to have "type A" and "type B" at all, when if moving them together you have "type combination" in the end. Why not just make tracks tracks, and that's it?

Every track type, as they are now, have certain attributes attached to them, be it choices of inputs, midi channel (I/O), midi fx, inserts, etc. ..., all that you can change about the track itself. So it's right now a matter of select a track and go straight to its feature set/settings .
The only way I could think of to make a homogenous (i.e. one-track-type) track mode is to give all tracks all attributes from start on and then decide which attributes are "enabled" for the specific track, once it's filled with content.
This would probably cost some more screenspace and maybe processing power to make it change dynamically (maybe on a clip-based selection) ? Maybe not though, I have to leave that open to anyone else wanting to build an opinion about it

[disturb]

just wanted to say that i'm glad we are heading at finally being able to see midi data form different tracks in a single view ...