GUI Design offer (+20 samples)

[Reubs]

very nice work! i like how little added extra's don't make the designs complicated or distracting, like the led indicator lights on the compressor. clear designs rock!

If you wanted to do some freeware stuff, my plugins could do with some nice GUI's!

or as some one suggested earlier, just some knobs and sliders to use in any project would be very cool too.


vam

Hey

Are your plugins skinable ?, looking for something "simple" to skin..

thanks

[jmh]

One reason why some don't do it is that having the backgrounds baked in the knobs makes stealing them at least a tad harder.

It has happened, although it's not that common.

There's pros and cons to it, and knowing several developers it's safe to say you're not exactly the first one or the only one to utilize 32-bit PNGs Why everybody and his cousin hasn't switched to PNGs, that's for the developers to say... but assuming that "MOST developers, even the leaders of the industry" haven't even thought about it since they're not using the stuff is just naive.

[TSV]

Have you produced any animations in vertical "filmstrip" format yet? If so, can we see some? That's half the job.

The other "secret", that I'm tired of keeping to myself, is what you can do with 32 bit PNGs with alpha instead of using 24 bit BMPs. Not only can the knobs seamlessly antialias into the BG, but they can carry their own shadows with them. This way you don't have to bake the BG into the knob images, as just about EVERYBODY seems to. And that means the same foreground knob can go anywhere over the background. And you can change the background image at any time without having to re-do the knobs.

Here's a short section of one of mine:



Load that up in Photoshop and throw it over a background and you'll see. The shadows cast onto whatever they're in front of.

Seems like almost nobody in this industry knows anything about image compositing though. So there you go, consider this a kick everyone.

Yea I try to use PNG with alpha blending and matte shadows in every knob but png support in guis seem to be still rather rare. I don't know why.

[Reubs]

TSV - your work is incredible. seriously impressive. Did it take a long time to learn lightwave? I am thinking maybe i should start using some 3D software for GUIs instead of hacking away with photoshop.

oli

Yeah but you always need PS at some point, ie, creating useable GUI elements from "just an image" regardless of how that image was created, 2d or 3d, i find the combo of 2d/3d the ultimate solution.

[AdmiralQuality]

jmh, I've done the research and you'd be surprised who's still baking the BGs in.

And TSV seems to agree, not many developers know what to do with them. (It's because most of the developers don't know graphics. They don't develop their code for graphic types that they're not delivered, and they're not delivered 32 bit PNGs because they don't ask you for them. And on it goes.)

So force 32 bit PNGs on your developers, and if they say they can't deal with them, tell them they're not trying hard enough! They love hearing stuff like that.

Its the difference between a 70 MB .dll, and a 7 MB .dll.

[grymmjack]

Seems like almost nobody in this industry knows anything about image compositing though. So there you go, consider this a kick everyone.

for assuming that everyone is ignorant about basic PNG alpha channels, you deserve a kick yourself. i do that already with the interfaces that support PNG.

nice knobs.

Just basing that on the products I've seen Grymm. i did say "almost nobody". So congrats to you.

But... "With the interfaces that support PNG". What do you mean?

Ah, you're a graphic artist. Yes, but do you provide the developer with images in these formats? That's what I'm talking about. The composition done in-software. (Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you.)

Most experienced artists will know these techniques, that's my point. But it seems a lot of developers, MOST developers, even the leaders of the industry, DON'T. It's them I want to kick.

And thanks. That knob is from the reject pile actually. But my point is the shadow trick (that and just plain alpha blending of the edges.)

Cheers.

admiral; wusikstation, one example, doesn't support anything but BMP format.

and yeah i provide them with whatever they want. prefer PNGs with alphas for the obvious reasons you mentioned - 1 pot to rule them all

yes for sure, kick william K hehe the bastard! (j/k william i you man!) Wusikstation needs PNG with alpha badly!

I admire your work admiral sorry for the distrunglement in your general direction, i've been ripe all day dealing with clients who are just wrong about the stuff they want done and very pushy about it..

does eXT support PNG? i hope to god it does.

[grymmjack]

jmh, I've done the research and you'd be surprised who's still baking the BGs in.

And TSV seems to agree, not many developers know what to do with them. (It's because most of the developers don't know graphics. They don't develop their code for graphic types that they're not delivered, and they're not delivered 32 bit PNGs because they don't ask you for them. And on it goes.)

So force 32 bit PNGs on your developers, and if they say they can't deal with them, tell them they're not trying hard enough! They love hearing stuff like that.

Its the difference between a 70 MB .dll, and a 7 MB .dll.

another one that doesn't: rhino, by the biggest tick of em all.

[AdmiralQuality]

Its not up to the host to support or not support PNG. It's up to the plug-developer (unless you're making graphics for the host.)

The plug talks directly to Windows GDI when it draws, all it gets from the host is a window handle.

Cheers Grymm, no probs, I get cranky too. (Lots!)

[grymmjack]

Its not up to the host to support or not support PNG. It's up to the plug-developer (unless you're making graphics for the host.)

The plug talks directly to Windows GDI when it draws, all it gets from the host is a window handle.

Cheers Grymm, no probs, I get cranky too. (Lots!)

no i know that (host not the deciding factor of PNG support), but i mean eXT skin engine i think only supports bmp.

i think alot of it has to do with the VSTgui stuff in the sdk or kit or something? i dont know for sure but if it only supported BMPs and used the resources (like the reshackable graphics in the older plugs like triangle1 for instance) format, that would be a reason devs would shun the PNG stuff -- BMP is already there and thus it's no work for them, whilst adding PNG into it with pnglib or whatever is more work...?

dunno.

[AdmiralQuality]

VSTGUI supports it. You just have to turn a #define on and throw in the png and zlib libs. (Like I said, try harder. )

Yes it's "more work". But you do it once. (Programmers never write the same piece of code twice. At least they shouldn't.) Rather than having your artists re-bake all the knobs each and every time you change a background label (potentially hours or in extreme cases like my Poly-Ana with 175 controls, it would be DAYS of work).

Not hard to justify that small one-time expenditure -- which shouldn't be more than a couple of hours of "programming" (dropping a lib in is hardly programming, but can be tricky especially if you're new to the concept.) That's how long it took me to go to PNGs anyway.

Cheers2!

Oh and yes, security is an issue and possible justification to bake in the BG. But, if someone stole my knobs (which took literally weeks of time to make) I think I'd be talking to a lawyer real fast. Stealing just isn't worth it. No professional company is going to do it, and even without a lawsuit, they're risking their reputation.

[tony tony chopper]

The other "secret", that I'm tired of keeping to myself, is what you can do with 32 bit PNGs

here's a "secret" I will share: if everyone uses plain bitmaps it's to spare memory by using 8bit ones. Because some do care about resources.

My knobs can support about everything, plain bitmaps, RGBA ones (from PNG's or targa's), fixed background with line, and pie-slice. It's not because I can use masked ones that I abuse them. I still use 8bit ones, and I more tend to use procedural/vectorial knobs that eat no resource, are clearer to read, can be resized & recolorized.

[grymmjack]

The other "secret", that I'm tired of keeping to myself, is what you can do with 32 bit PNGs

here's a "secret" I will share: if everyone uses plain bitmaps it's to spare memory by using 8bit ones. Because some do care about resources.

My knobs can support about everything, plain bitmaps, RGBA ones (from PNG's or targa's), fixed background with line, and pie-slice. It's not because I can use masked ones that I abuse them. I still use 8bit ones, and I more tend to use procedural/vectorial knobs that eat no resource, are clearer to read, can be resized & recolorized.

gol yours are cool. the controls for dashboard are optimized for sure. i like that personally. does it eat cpu to draw frame by frame a shared PNG? where you use programming to draw the tick mark on the pot, is less intense to the cpu?

[tony tony chopper]

Well a plain bitmap is surely faster, except that if it's 8bit you have to go through a palette of course.
But in the most recent FL it's slower because I blit them twice with alpha to get a sub-pixel accuracy effect out of a limited # of bitmaps.

The ones using lines are fast but I don't use them anymore. These days I'm using circle-filling ones.

But the biggest problem is more in the windows GDI that takes way too long to create temp bitmaps, so I have to waste memory with cache ones.

[grymmjack]

Well a plain bitmap is surely faster, except that if it's 8bit you have to go through a palette of course.
But in the most recent FL it's slower because I blit them twice with alpha to get a sub-pixel accuracy effect out of a limited # of bitmaps.

The ones using lines are fast but I don't use them anymore. These days I'm using circle-filling ones.

But the biggest problem is more in the windows GDI that takes way too long to create temp bitmaps, so I have to waste memory with cache ones.

i did not notice a significant slowdown with the 6.1 beta gui. in fact, it seems the same as before speedwise, but you obviously have some way to measure that i dont. nice work on the 6.1 interface too man, like it alot. love philter is hip. the pots on that are gorgeous and the multi-states are a nice touch (fades on over and out etc).

[tony tony chopper]

I started to use the sub-pixel trick in 6.0 or maybe 5. It's not noticable anymore, but it would have been 7 years ago.