Live 6

[dgkenney]

It kind of hurts to admit it, but I find myself on the wrong side of my own arguement. When people complain about the cost of a particular plug-in I usually respond (either in my head or on k-V-r) that the market should decide a piece of software's worth. In other words, if people are willing to shell out X$ for a plug-in then it is in fact "worth it"

Despite my love for Live, I think the additional cost of $100 for the boxed version including EIC and $200 for Sampler on top of the $119 upgrade is too steep a step for existing customers. In my mind a price of around $250 for everything (upgrade/EIC/Sampler) seems about right.

So here I am having to eat my own words. If the EIC sound set and/or Sampler do well in the market then I guess they are priced right; if not there may be some deals to be had down the road. I'm hoping for the latter so I will hold off on Sampler for awhile.

This puts me in the awkward position of rooting for my choosen host's developer to stumble. In actuality I hope Live 6 is a BIG success and that Sampler will come down in price or be bundled with some outrageous multi-gig sound library.

Dan

[kovacs]

If they do like last year there's bound to be an introductory offer that's better than what is listed... *crosses fingers*

[dabb]

"pdxindy"
for download, it is $470 not $570... still a lot

That's right but if I want the "Essential Instrument Collection" that still makes it $570. Notice its called "essential"

dabb

you said you would go the download way to save a few bucks. since the EIC is not available for download, I figured you would not be getting it.

If I get Sampler, I will not be getting the 'essential' instruments.

Your right my mistake, anyway I'm looking forward to this update. Hopefully Ableton will have some type of special offer when the time comes...

dabb

[shamann]

So here I am having to eat my own words. If the EIC sound set and/or Sampler do well in the market then I guess they are priced right; if not there may be some deals to be had down the road. I'm hoping for the latter so I will hold off on Sampler for awhile.

I'm sure it will do well enough. Operator, for instance, is fairly expensive and fairly basic relative to its competition, but from what I've read here and on other message boards, a healthy number of Live users got it. I guess the integration and uniformity of design is a plus for Live users, despite not necessarily getting the greatest bang for your buck.

Personally, I think everything about Live is a bit of a rip off. But that's just personally. I'm with you on market forces. The price is ultimately up to them and their customers, I'm in no way harmed by the fleecing.

But I admit, I like the layout of their new website.

[riley4reason]

But so far as I can tell, Sampler itself does not ship with any sample content at all, right?

(Another of the reasons that it hardly competes in terms of value for money with alternative products currently on the market...)

I believe that is correct... no sample content unless you purchase the EIC (boxed version)

I do think it is too early to tell if Sampler competes since we cannot try it and it is only in alpha.

One way it more than competes. With Kontakt, if I record some audio, I have to save that audio to disk and then import into Kontakt. With Sampler, you will be able to drag the clip right in. With flatten, it will be easy to resample too. This is a huge draw for me!

If I get Sampler I will not get the EIC library. I will get Sampler if it turns out it is a great sampling/mangling/performance beast. Kontakt is not ideal in that regard

I assure you, Kontakt is a sampling, mangling performance beast.

Check out Imageline's Directwave and you'll get a good idea of what the Abes is about to put out,, it's just about $100.00 less and very powerful and sounds incredible like all of their products.
Riley

[bullshark]

Check out Imageline's Directwave

Holy shit, how did this one gets under my radar?

[riley4reason]

Check out Imageline's Directwave

Holy shit, how did this one gets under my radar?

Please don't make me point out the 10% savings link, people are starting to get tired of it.

Riley

[bullshark]

Check out Imageline's Directwave

Holy shit, how did this one gets under my radar?

Please don't make me point out the 10% savings link, people are starting to get tired of it.

Riley

I won't make you point out to the 10% saving link in your signature, I promise beside, I had already clicked on it...

[shamann]

Please don't make me point out the 10% savings link, people are starting to get tired of it.

Since I've ragged on you a few times for it, I promise that if I decide to get Directwave for $90, I will definitely do so through your link.

[pdxindy]

I assure you, Kontakt is a sampling, mangling performance beast.

Check out Imageline's Directwave and you'll get a good idea of what the Abes is about to put out,, it's just about $100.00 less and very powerful and sounds incredible like all of their products.
Riley

I own Kontakt, and I sure do wish I could just drag a clip from the host into it. Also, the interface is not as fluid as I'd like. When Sampler beta is available, I will be comparing and if Sampler offers me something in speed and ease of use that Kontakt does not I'll get it, if not I wont. Either way I will keep Kontakt for library playback.

Directwave is not available for the Mac

[riley4reason]

Please don't make me point out the 10% savings link, people are starting to get tired of it.

Since I've ragged on you a few times for it, I promise that if I decide to get Directwave for $90, I will definitely do so through your link.

OK

[headquest]

essential for abletons continued financial well-being ???

slainte rob

Although said partly in jest, you may well be right there... Ableton clearly have big ongoing plans for Live (even though GB and RH are on the record stating that they had "completed" their original vision for Live when they released 5). Taking Live forward and keeping it at the cutting edge clearly takes investment, and I'm sure those shiny offices in central Berlin aren't cheap either. .

The question is how far we users will be pushed to foot these costs "up front". I very much doubt, after all, that any of their general prices are coming down over the next four years once they have crossed the next investment hill... a couple of years ago Ableton were a prime candidate for corporate takeover - now they seem to have set their sites on actually BEING one of the big boys, and seem intent on getting their FAST at our expense.

As an occasional magazine reviewer the thing that concerns me most in this is the $100 rise in the core price of Live (to newcomers). From $499 to $599. When I bought Live (version 2) it was in effect competing against Project 5 (v1) and Acid 4, neither of which were strong releases to be blunt about it. But since then, both those products have brought out far stronger unpdates AND lowered their price. The increased price of Live means that version 6 will no longer be competing in the same market. In stead it is up against the likes of Sonar Producer, and if you add in the two instruments the cost is closer to Logic Pro and Cubase SX.

So if I was writing a review of Live (and in fact I may be ) I would be following a brief to compare against THOSE products, which is a different ball game to comparing Live vs. Acid. How, for example, could we compare Live's mix engine with the 64-bit summing available in Sonar 5, or Live's dither alongside the Pow-r 3 algorithm? Do the new meters in Live 6 compare well with those in Logic or Cubase? Does the Ableton basic compressor compare well against the Sonitus fx: Multiband, or the reverb stand up to Logic's Space Designer or Sonar's Lexicon and Perfect Space effects? Suddenly these questions become relevant, which is an interesting position to find ourselves in with Live 6.

Whether it's greed, necessity, or a genuine desire to reposition Live in the market, the implications of Ableton's price hike are hard to simply ignore.

[headquest]

Check out Imageline's Directwave

Holy shit, how did this one gets under my radar?

Perhaps it got under Ableton's radar too? Their own product is about to go out at more than twice the price...

I own Kontakt, and I sure do wish I could just drag a clip from the host into it.

This one for $135 has drag and drop support:

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1191.html

and there is even a free lite version. Again though it's just for Windows.

Of course both these also work in Cubase/Sonar/Tracktion/eXT/Reaper/FL Studio/etc - as well as (not just) in Ableton Live. Surely a pretty big attraction?

Perhaps Ableton are primarily just aware of the Mac market?

[pdxindy]

Whether it's greed, necessity, or a genuine desire to reposition Live in the market, the implications of Ableton's price hike are hard to simply ignore.

I must admit that I am having no trouble ignoring those implications

[pdxindy]

I own Kontakt, and I sure do wish I could just drag a clip from the host into it.

This one for $135 has drag and drop support:

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1191.html

yeah, as you point out it is pc only, so of no use to me. I do not expect to buy Sampler, but am open to the possibility of liking it and buying it.

It is fairly easy to get a copy of Live Lite as it is bundled with quite a bit. Then the upgrade price is a reasonable $250, there is no need to get Operator or Sampler. The avenue is still there for someone to get the full program at a pretty cheap price.

I'm not justifying their price hikes, just pointing out that the person without much money can still get in on Live without too much pain.