cheap hardware reverbs vs software

[Boulotaur2024]

but maybe that's just me/a matter of taste ...

Suits my tastes too, if I remember well your AAR presets

Brok, that would be really nice of you if you could post a few more of your incredible AAR custom presets, here or in the Arts Acoustic section, I'm a big fan of your work (yea overall).

[brok landers]

thanks man!
well, i would post them, but i can't ... i never saved the tweaks i made ... as soon i have some presets ready i'll post 'em, i promise!

[Warp69]

i noticed that under these circumstances v-verb allowed the reverb time not to go under 2 sec ... the nested allpass-structures only allow this when you know how to program them, which behringer obviously didn't care too much about.

Im not quite sure what you mean - could you clarify?

Cheers

[brok landers]

Brok,

Can you recommend a particular set of room convolution samples?

not really, i use the noisefault ones mostly (the lexicon ones mostly, but i try them all in general) ... also i use them in an not so "orthodox" method. i don't really use small rooms mostly, i just seek for some reverb that sounds good on the material and mostly shorten the tail to my needs (with the envelope) ... also, if the er's are disturbing, i try to cut them away from the actual tail ... i allways found something that suits the task this way ...

[brok landers]

i noticed that under these circumstances v-verb allowed the reverb time not to go under 2 sec ... the nested allpass-structures only allow this when you know how to program them, which behringer obviously didn't care too much about.

Im not quite sure what you mean - could you clarify?

Cheers

well, depending on the size of the early reflections (iirc, or was it the roomsize?) you simply cannot shorten the reverbtail under 2 sec ... there is a size where the reverb sounds as best as it can ... once you found that setting (at least it sounded best to me) i was not able to tweak the reverb length under 2 sec ... this is _only_ the case with the "nested allpass algorithm" ... the v-verbs main algorithm (the actual reverb algo that they refer to in their advertising) of course can do that (go under 2 sec), but i did not like this algo no matter what. so i am refering to the algorithm that can be heavily modulated, wich is the one based on "nested allpass structures" ...
understand what i mean now?

[Warp69]

Hi,

The reason Im asking is that a nested allpass structure can quite easily have RT60 below 1-2 msec. How do you know that one of the algorithms is based on a nested allpass structure (Gardner)?

Cheers

[kmonkey]

I like them both ArtsAcoustic and V-Verb

[brok landers]

Hi,

The reason Im asking is that a nested allpass structure can quite easily have RT60 below 1-2 msec.

i know that, like i told you, it _can_ do it ...
but only with certain settings (roomzize or er's, i don't remember).
i only found the reverb to produce an acceptable result when having these tweaks (roomzize or er) done, and then it just doesn't allow decays under 2 sec or so ...
see, the problem was (i think i do remember now),
that the small roomsizes didn't sound good with this algo ...
so you had to find a setting while turnig the roomzize bigger and bigger. once i found an acceptable sounding roomzize it wouldn't allowe shorter decays... man, my english ... sorry ...

How do you know that one of the algorithms is based on a nested allpass structure (Gardner)?

i know a guy who developed for behringer ...
he knows behringer dev's ...
i asked him, if it was nested allpass structures.
see, nested allpass structures have a certain sound (at least the ones i heard).
the reason why they use it is mainly, that you can have a relative dense reverb tail with very few delays (that's why the allpasses are "nested") ... so this algo seems to be not too resource hungry because of that fact.
the good thing is, you can modulate all the delays in the tail, as there are not so much ... the bad thing is:
1. short rooms are not sounding so good
2. the reverb needs a while to "build up" the density by the time, so that "impact-big-ness" you hear on very expensive reverbs cannot be done.
3. because of that fact small roomsizes don't sound too good.
4. bigger roomsizes are needed, mostly connected with a longer tail, wich then cannot be shorter ... or, if it could be shorter, the dev's maybe connect these two parameters to avoid the possibility to create unwanted or bad results...
at least that's what i've read/experianced with nested allpass structured reverbs ...
but why ask me?
ask the dev's, they might be able to explain way deeper than me ... i only got my knowledge piece by piece, mayb some pieces are missing, i'm constanly learning ...

[Warp69]

Hi Brok,

Thank you for your answer - I think this is the wrong thread regarding discussions about reverb structures and limitations.

Btw I did the algorithm design of the CSR.

Kind regards

[JeffSanders]

Hi Brok,

Thank you for your answer - I think this is the wrong thread regarding discussions about reverb structures and limitations.

Btw I did the algorithm design of the CSR.

Kind regards

Sweet...I just so happen to have a spanking new, waiting-to-be-installed CSR right in front of me!

[Kiwburger]

if yopu all talk of greedy developers, dont forget the following

behringer produces in china right? it may well be that the emplyes get 0.50$ a day plus 50 whippings, and has not to pay that much taxes (wich may be bad or goog, depens on how taxes used)

if you are a developer in canada for example your life is much more expensive, yna dyou have to pay a whole lot more, so you need to charge a whole lot more.

of course there are many very black cheeps, who charege a lot, but produce also in china ore other cheap countrys. those bad brands where you pay for the name only, the often the favouirite brands of your children

see, prices have too many bloody couses today.

think of it.

D3CK

P.S. I for myself decided to stop buying cheap stuff, i dont have much, but i just care for my stuff so ot lasts longer and just buy stuff with no blood on it(aka , NOT made by children who almost die from their working conditions).

I'm sure you heart is in the right place, but you don't really understand. Rating the quality of human life in US dollars is not relevant to anyone except Americans. (Or substitute Pounds or Euro's). The way to rate the quality of human life is whether people have food, clothing, shelter and health. Sure - in some countries, the value of their currency doesn't allow them to buy things in American dollars. So what? They don't need american drugs and chemicals or guns and bombs to destroy their health and safety.

Trust me - the Chinese are fed and clothed and sheltered, and enjoy probably better health than the standard fat american living on pizza and coke. The fact that their currency conversion looks pathetic is no measure of the quality of their life and happiness.

If you really, really care about allowing the Chinese to attain financial equity with America, then you need to support them by buying Chinese made products. This is exactly what happened with Japan. After the yanks bombed them in WWII, they then exploited their labour and purchased Japanese products. This turned Japan into the wealthiest nation on earth. If you care about China - buy their products.

Then they to can experience the American dream - of obesity and ill health, compounded by vaccinnes that spread new diseases and drugs that appear to mask the symptoms. Wash that down with rivers of Coke and mountains of Big Macs, and you will then be able to compare the Chinese with Americans in the only currency that really matters.

[kmonkey]

And here we go

[kuniklo]

Let's talk about the morality of Behringer and Chinese manufacturing in another thread, ok?

[brok landers]

Hi Brok,

Thank you for your answer - I think this is the wrong thread regarding discussions about reverb structures and limitations.

Btw I did the algorithm design of the CSR.

Kind regards

hey! nice piece of reverb ...
shame that it has a dongle, so it's nothing for me ...

[JeffSanders]

Dongle schmongel, man. I just played with the CSR for the first time and close to cried tears of joy.