cheap hardware reverbs vs software

[sounddesigner]

Dongle schmongel, man. I just played with the CSR for the first time and close to cried tears of joy.

It's ok to cry i let out a few myself when i first heard CSR .When you go to comparing CSR to your older reverbs your going to start noticing a big difference and how CSR is much smoother and high end sounding then them. Your other reverbs become less interesting as time passes because the more you hear CSR the more you'll only want to hear CSR.Atleast that is the case for me.

[hifiboom]

i noticed that under these circumstances v-verb allowed the reverb time not to go under 2 sec ... the nested allpass-structures only allow this when you know how to program them, which behringer obviously didn't care too much about.

Im not quite sure what you mean - could you clarify?

Cheers

well, depending on the size of the early reflections (iirc, or was it the roomsize?) you simply cannot shorten the reverbtail under 2 sec ... there is a size where the reverb sounds as best as it can ... once you found that setting (at least it sounded best to me) i was not able to tweak the reverb length under 2 sec ... this is _only_ the case with the "nested allpass algorithm" ... the v-verbs main algorithm (the actual reverb algo that they refer to in their advertising) of course can do that (go under 2 sec), but i did not like this algo no matter what. so i am refering to the algorithm that can be heavily modulated, wich is the one based on "nested allpass structures" ...
understand what i mean now?

Thats really funny brok.

Maybe you should have had a look into the manual first....

But seriously, there are differnet algorithms and only the bigger sized hall algorithm have these limitation...

Of course with the Behringer unit you are fixed to an algorithm when you choose a preset...

If you would have choosen another preset not doing with Cathedral or Concert Hall, you would have noticed that the Behringer unit easily does do very short decy times...

And if you want something large sounding with very short decay, there is the Ambiance algorithm.

Choose a preset with this algo and then start tweaking...


Today I got my copy of the CSR-1 reverb....
What I can say at first: it sounds really nice and all 4 algorithms deliver what I expected. In some way it excels also the v-Verb.

While the V-Verb has its strengths the CSR also has...

@Warp: buildup and disperse just work the way that I expected....
Very very very nice...

I tried to recreate the fast-attack-response thing we talked about and came very close to that sound...

So I am really satisfied with my purchase.

maybe I'll post some personal review soon.

My first impressions are: CSR sits fantastic in the mix, has really nice capabilities to change the reverb envelope and the better modeled Early reflection part.

For ultra long reverb tails I had the impression that the V-Verb sounded little more clean...
But I have to check this out in more detail....
At least you did an awsome job.

The CSR has its place in my gear list, and I think I throw all other software VST reverbs to wastebaket.

[friteuse]

I demoed it, compared it to my PCM91 and found,the CSR was worse. Esp.in the mix, the PCM91 was much more transparent, spacious, while CSR sounded a bit thin and flat.

If you want Lexisound, then I recommand, go and buy one. I recently did the final step and purchased a 480L

All I can say now, is that the impulses and the s/w clones, they don't come even close to the real thing. It's much better to have the originals (it's like synth plugins, was there one moog remake that sounded like a moog?)...

Reverbs are like instruments, you cannot get enough of them. I was quiet a few times disappointed from the 480L, because it didn't the job I was looking for. Then it's good to have another option, same like if you have a Strat and a Telecaster.

Softwareside, it's very often the ArtsAcoustic Reverb for me, because it sounds just like no other reverb and does a very well job in lots of situations.

[hifiboom]

I think you are right.

If you want exact PCM91 sound, you should go out and buy a PCM91.

But if you want the overall sound qualities of a PCM91 ( or isn't the CSR-1 modeled after a PCM90? ) with the price of a 10th of a PCM91 you'll get it with the CSR...

The most important thing, the ER room, Hall impression and the buildup of these reflections is just very good modeled... Thats where CSR excels all other software reverbs and many hardware boxes up to the mid-range class...

So as I am a student and even 300€ is much money for me, its good value.

I maybe go out some time in the future and also buy a PCM91, but for now, I got what I want....

And at least the CSR is a good step into the right direction. Maybe Warp is going to optimize its algorithm in the future and hopefully he'll come up with more algorithms...

And at least it always depends on what you wnat to do, for some guys AA will be the best, and for the next one... is the best...

For me AA is sounding much too metallic and CSR is sounding more smooth in the background making the right ambience. But I also think that in some situations like broks example AA sounds more convincing...
I think it depends on the needs and we all need different reverbs from time to time...

[hifiboom]

you can listen on some sound demos in my new thread about CSR and AA
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=143506

[brok landers]

Thats really funny brok.

Maybe you should have had a look into the manual first....

manu ... howdya spell that?
but seriously: i _eat_ manuals, i read them when others read books in bed ...

But seriously, there are differnet algorithms and only the bigger sized hall algorithm have these limitation...

Of course with the Behringer unit you are fixed to an algorithm when you choose a preset...

If you would have choosen another preset not doing with Cathedral or Concert Hall, you would have noticed that the Behringer unit easily does do very short decy times...

you should read my posts more carefully.
i allready said, of course i know all that.
i don't wanna repeat myself again and again, so maybe have a read again through my older posts.
the algo's that you talk about are the "main" v-verb algo's, wich they advertise it for.
the algo _i_ speak of is more a addon-gift.
the problem is, that i don't like the advertised main-algo's ...
to me the "nested allpass-structured algo", which is this "addon" algo sounded way better than the main algo's ... but thisone has the limits i was talking about ...
and, thisone _doesn't_ have different fixed room algo-templates. it's just one general reverb algorithm in v-verb. and the others, like i said, were even worse sounding to me ...
believe me, i wished very hard that the v-verb was convincing me, i would've puchased 4 units and would've been ready to go ... but unfortunately this is not the case ...

[hifiboom]

Hi brok thats just okay,

I don't force you to use V-Verb...
everyone can and should use what he likes most.

Its just fine to have a nice discussion here at KVR about the different plug-ins and tools and some sound examples and different opinions...

i _eat_ manuals, i read them when others read books in bed ...

what makes us some kind of brotherhood.

[brok landers]

Hi brok thats just okay,

I don't force you to use V-Verb...

oh, i did not take it that way, don't worry ...

i _eat_ manuals, i read them when others read books in bed ...

what makes us some kind of brotherhood.