KVR Audio

Jason Brian Merrill · Post by **Jason Brian Merrill** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:09 am

but yea, what a crappy "test".

no offense.

sascha · Post by **sascha** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:14 am

Warp69 wrote:
sascha wrote:......the Dattoro/Griesinger design with the nested allpass along the figure 8 loop.
The Dattoro design doesn't use any nested allpass filters. Gartner uses some nested allpass filters in the inner structure.

Cheers

Yes, right. The overall response isn't allpass because of the combs. I just mixed thing up as I once experimented with the the Dattoro plate and put a nested structure in it and ripped out the combs. But I ended up confused and still favor his original design. The nested Gardner design also sounded very washy to me, but that might be up to the 'right' param voodoo... I might have lost confidence along the way...

Warp69 · Post by **Warp69** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:42 am

sascha wrote:The overall response isn't allpass because of the combs. I just mixed thing up as I once experimented with the the Dattoro plate and put a nested structure in it and ripped out the combs.

Hi Sascha,

Are we talking about the same structure? Since there're no comb filters in the Datorro structure.....

Cheers

sascha · Post by **sascha** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:32 pm

Warp69 wrote:
sascha wrote:The overall response isn't allpass because of the combs. I just mixed thing up as I once experimented with the the Dattoro plate and put a nested structure in it and ripped out the combs.
Hi Sascha,

Are we talking about the same structure? Since there're no comb filters in the Datorro structure.....

Cheers

Simple Delay lines, without feedback.

premiumcrap · Post by **premiumcrap** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:44 pm

yesterday i did a test with the /horrible/ dry clap-sample
i used different freeware reverbs
1. xhip-reverb...result: not too bad,but metallic ringing in parts of the tail
2. freeverb 2....result: grainy and smoothless
3. anwida dx-free...result: broadband tail not as smooth as CSR ,but not as grainy/harsh as AAR
4. SIR with T.C.vss3 32bit impulses...result smooth tail,but somehow lifeless.
could probably get enhanced by some kind of modulation (Chorus/symphonic etc.)
5. Reverbering (dash Sinature)....result...very clean smooth reverbtail more broadband
Than CSR no disturbing frequences (ringing,metallic character etc.)
hint: use an eligible "delay vst ,you can adjust by milliseconds" as predelay unit

for me in this crappy test the WINNER is : REVERBERING followed by CSR

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:46 pm

can you send me this tool as it is no more hosted on the homepage... ?

premiumcrap · Post by **premiumcrap** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:14 pm

make a search here at kvr
type in reverbering....and you will find a topic titled "Free"no pop up"reverb plugin
by NUSofting,get it now"....on this sites are some links that should function.

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:20 pm

no, I don't find it...

MelodyMan · Post by **MelodyMan** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:25 pm

hifiboom wrote:no, I don't find it...

http://nusofting.liqihsynth.com/zip/Reverbering.zip

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:32 pm

uh thanks.

link on homepage did not work when I tried...

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:53 pm

premiumcrap wrote:yesterday i did a test with the /horrible/ dry clap-sample
i used different freeware reverbs
1. xhip-reverb...result: not too bad,but metallic ringing in parts of the tail
2. freeverb 2....result: grainy and smoothless
3. anwida dx-free...result: broadband tail not as smooth as CSR ,but not as grainy/harsh as AAR
4. SIR with T.C.vss3 32bit impulses...result smooth tail,but somehow lifeless.
could probably get enhanced by some kind of modulation (Chorus/symphonic etc.)
5. Reverbering (dash Sinature)....result...very clean smooth reverbtail more broadband
Than CSR no disturbing frequences (ringing,metallic character etc.)
hint: use an eligible "delay vst ,you can adjust by milliseconds" as predelay unit

for me in this crappy test the WINNER is : REVERBERING followed by CSR

Not even close, okay the oveall sound from reverbering is not bad, but there is no attack part in the reverb, so you have to do it all with predelay, which will make the dry sound cut away from the reverb....

listen exactly to the demos, there is not much predelay at all,.. the delay impression(preday) is done by the long attack phase on the reverb, which does do this slay back effect and make the hall sound really large.

Of course the original sound has a slighty other character, but this can be done by IN IMAGE and OUT IMAGE, which does affect the spatial impression very much.

In a mix you will easily hear the difference, the CSR generated reverb gets part of the dry signal...

Boulotaur2024 · Post by **Boulotaur2024** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:37 pm

Ok so I decided to make a more thorough A/B comparative between CSR and AA using vocal samples this time.

CSR sounds like this :
http://s146380088.onlinehome.fr/Muzik/C ... Audio2.mp3

AA sounds like this :
http://s146380088.onlinehome.fr/Muzik/C ... Audio3.mp3

Original :
http://s146380088.onlinehome.fr/Muzik/C ... Audio1.mp3

Overall I prefer the dry sound.

premiumcrap · Post by **premiumcrap** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:14 pm

hello hifiboom
shure you need a separate delay vst for using reverbering -i recommend "starplugs delay" .but cause reverbering is so low on CPU it this just doesn't matter.
this way it's clear:it would only work as a send effect.
me personally was impressed by the smoothness and clarity of reverbering.
i guess ,this could also be ideal to add an addidional modulation stage.without
getting to much muddyness. i prefer this to a relatively "dead"convolution reverb.
i will keep on trying

premiumcrap · Post by **premiumcrap** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:42 pm

hello hifiboom

in reality it's not possible that reverb is melting together with the source
cause predelay is the distance between the source and the first reflection from the
environment.but i agree a reverb is able to color a source sound in a good or bad way.
and i agree .me i would also never let AAR to metalize up my mixes.
i demoed AAR acouple of days ago and was absolutely nonimpressed.thats why i'm also
curious about CSR at all.

sounddesigner · Post by **sounddesigner** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:51 pm

Boulotaur2024 wrote:Ok so I decided to make a more thorough A/B comparative between CSR and AA using vocal samples this time.

CSR sounds like this :
http://s146380088.onlinehome.fr/Muzik/C ... Audio2.mp3

AA sounds like this :
http://s146380088.onlinehome.fr/Muzik/C ... Audio3.mp3

Original :
http://s146380088.onlinehome.fr/Muzik/C ... Audio1.mp3

Overall I prefer the dry sound.

I believe the reason neither AAR or CSR sounded good to you is because the original file already has reverb on it and when you use either verb after it a heavy build-up occurs. I still attempted to work with it and i believe i got better results, i do not own AAR so i used masterverb5, CSR (room, inverse, hall), and wizoo.I believe i got 3 good results-CSR inverse, CSR room, and Wizooverb. CSR hall did'nt sound right to me for this test. Someone who's good at using AAR can grab the original and create a sample file. Like i said tho the original sounds quite reverbed already so getting desired results can be tricky. Link is below:

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 0725C224A3

CSR-1 compared to AA