KVR Audio

voidar · Post by **voidar** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:29 pm

I stay with my DSP gear because I like how it sounds, how it works and how it restricts me. Restriction is very creative. I don't rely on any native plugs at all, allthough I have some installed. If I want to EQ I emediately reach for my DSP EQs. Those I know, and the thousands of bad, mediocre and good native EQs out there don't interest me at all. They can f**k of really.

Someone wrote: "What happens when my Pulsar II dies?"

Well, what happens when your Eventide dies?

The Creamware cards realy on ancient but reliable SHARCs and proven years-old PCI-arcitechure. Given you treat it well it will last.

Whatever works. And why fix anything that isn't broken.

Tony Ostinato · Post by **Tony Ostinato** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:17 pm

I'm glad you like poco firewire but please know the dsps's it uses are far more antique than uad-1's. Thats why they have to use so many, and therefore the power of the plugins in limited by the segmented architecture.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:52 am

[DELETED]

Jason Brian Merrill · Post by **Jason Brian Merrill** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:03 am

much less chance of a hardware unit kept in studio dying than a pci card of any sort.

mike goodwin · Post by **mike goodwin** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:43 am

Im pretty happy about the PSP group buy that is happening through the LUG forum. It looks like I am going to pick up all there plugs for $500 bucks! That is helping to ease the transition. As for native CPU power it seems that the AMD X2 Athnon chips (that I just bought) are now getting smoked by the new intel chips. And yet again in one year the power of consumer CPU power increases by two fold. I bet now that AMD and Intel have gotten over the 4 GIG problem we will see HUGE cpu speed jumps in the next couple of years. Picture Dual AMD x4 10000 cpu computers. I can run sessions at 88k now on a amd 4400 with loads of VST's on a AMDx2 4400. My synth plugins are running at twice the speed of my hardware digital synths. They sound better for it too.

voidar · Post by **voidar** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:32 pm

Jason Brian Merrill wrote:much less chance of a hardware unit kept in studio dying than a pci card of any sort.

Really. Can you back-up that statement with any scientific studies? Or is it just "common sense"?

I believe that with computer hardware life-time there are three things to consider:

1. HEAT (must be controlled)
2. Build quality (self explanatory - i.e. Sound Blaster Live vs. Echo Mia)
3. Hardware arcitechture (less complexity - less chance of fault)

Hardware is hardware.

HOUDINIwithFL · Post by **HOUDINIwithFL** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:38 pm

mike goodwin wrote:Thinking of selling my UAD and my Powercore PCI, am i crazy?

Most definately

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:25 pm

Jason Brian Merrill wrote:
much less chance of a hardware unit kept in studio dying than a pci card of any sort.

Really. Can you back-up that statement with any scientific studies? Or is it just "common sense"?

I can see at least one common sense angle that is hard to deny. I used to smoke (more in the studio than out...although I've recently given up). Anyway - I've taken apart various items in my studios over the years...some of which have been sat in a smokey studio for many a year. And most of them have benn perfectly OK. Some of those poor units really have been abused...y'know how it is at 3am; you need to change around some jacks at the back, you've had several too many spliffs and it takes half an hour just to dial in a new reverb patch...and you're hovering 1" from the rack with your face stuck against a little black box with a fag hanging out of the corner of your mouth (aaaah....nostalgia is a sweet thing...

) - you flick the ash all over your mixer because you could have sworn it was an ashtray only a minute ago.

Anyways...check the inside of a PC if you're a smoker. Nasty. A PC has a fan which sucks every particle of shit in the studio inside your precarious and delicate box full of sensitive electronics. At least h/w units don't do that - some don't even have heat grilles at all. The worst you can do is build up a layer of tar in the jack sockets - which is easily cleanable. Not so easy in a PC, so your DSP card has actually acquired a 20-a-day habit in the meantime.

This is not research, by the way - this is direct observation in my own studios. I know most of my own h/w puts up with abuse of most kinds better than any PC.

Jason Brian Merrill · Post by **Jason Brian Merrill** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:45 pm

voidar wrote:
Jason Brian Merrill wrote:much less chance of a hardware unit kept in studio dying than a pci card of any sort.
Really. Can you back-up that statement with any scientific studies? Or is it just "common sense"?

I believe that with computer hardware life-time there are three things to consider:

1. HEAT (must be controlled)
2. Build quality (self explanatory - i.e. Sound Blaster Live vs. Echo Mia)
3. Hardware arcitechture (less complexity - less chance of fault)

Hardware is hardware.

no, no its not.

A pci card becomes part of a larger whole, that is, of your computer. So then it becomes dependant on the thousands of variables that your computer is subject to.

its NOT the same.

voidar · Post by **voidar** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:43 pm

Jason Brian Merrill wrote: no, no its not.

A pci card becomes part of a larger whole, that is, of your computer. So then it becomes dependant on the thousands of variables that your computer is subject to.

its NOT the same.

Well, I am sorry, I don't really see the difference.

If a computer is used for multiple tasks - music, internet, gaming - then I can see how it can become instable, but it's perfectly possible to dedicate a computer to one single task.

Sure, a Lexicon is a computer in itself, while i.e. a Pulsar II has no on-board memory and relies on the system. But just because you - the user - can divide a piece of hardware into modules doesn't necessarily make it more fragile. That just makes it modular.

voidar · Post by **voidar** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:55 pm

kritikon wrote: A PC has a fan which sucks every particle of shit in the studio inside your precarious and delicate box full of sensitive electronics. At least h/w units don't do that - some don't even have heat grilles at all. The worst you can do is build up a layer of tar in the jack sockets - which is easily cleanable. Not so easy in a PC, so your DSP card has actually acquired a 20-a-day habit in the meantime.

This is not research, by the way - this is direct observation in my own studios. I know most of my own h/w puts up with abuse of most kinds better than any PC.

Unless a piece of DSP card is covered in tar and dust - which could be a fire-hazzard - contacts (to motherboard) are easily cleaned with alcohol. And any extra cleaning should be time-consuming, but possible.
Quality DSP cards will outlast many computer upgrades. At least the ones I know. But then again I don't smoke, or let people smoke, around my equipment.

Jason Brian Merrill · Post by **Jason Brian Merrill** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:59 pm

voidar wrote:
kritikon wrote: A PC has a fan which sucks every particle of shit in the studio inside your precarious and delicate box full of sensitive electronics. At least h/w units don't do that - some don't even have heat grilles at all. The worst you can do is build up a layer of tar in the jack sockets - which is easily cleanable. Not so easy in a PC, so your DSP card has actually acquired a 20-a-day habit in the meantime.

This is not research, by the way - this is direct observation in my own studios. I know most of my own h/w puts up with abuse of most kinds better than any PC.
Unless a piece of DSP card is covered in tar and dust - which could be a fire-hazzard - contacts (to motherboard) are easily cleaned with alcohol. And any extra cleaning should be time-consuming, but possible.
Quality DSP cards will outlast many computer upgrades. At least the ones I know. But then again I don't smoke, or let people smoke, around my equipment.

i agree with you on this one....

so you can and should use alcohol to clean out your pci card contacts? Didnt know that one. My pc is almost 5 years old, never a component failure, i try and keep it in the best shape possible. This is a handy tip

Lord Snarebottom · Post by **Lord Snarebottom** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:01 pm

Wow, you mean to tell me that a difference of less than 4ms (at 96 KHz) to about 8ms (at 44.1 KHz) makes you whine like a friggin sissy? Playing on stage with other musicians will give you greater latency than that, you pansy.

Maybe you should figure out how to stop being a whining sissy, as that little change will make your whole life more fulfilling.

Now, go change your diaper.

Jason Brian Merrill · Post by **Jason Brian Merrill** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:19 pm

ignorance is beautiful.

Tony Ostinato · Post by **Tony Ostinato** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:48 pm

If people are trading their uad-1's for the equivalent in hardware (i often run between 15-30 plugins in a session) i can see why theres rolling blackouts.

hmmm 3 fairchilds at 20 tunes apiece = 60 tubes......