Live6 Beta1 is in the wild...to registered 5 users only!

[coldmachine]

Its weak because of library compatability. It cannot fully import the file formats with all the attendant sound settings. There are also serious problem just importing the supported formats in the first place let alone per sample edit issues. The filter morphing also lacks many of the facilities initially planned. Not even close to Z-Plane filters.

[kuniklo]

There's no question that something like the Emulator X2 for $100 more blows Sampler completely out of the water and off the planet for creative sound design. They should charge $100 for Sampler.

[coldmachine]

As does almost any other Sampler. Compared to Halion, Giga, Kontakt, Emulator etc it is a toy. I would say that due to the massive short falls it should have been included in the U/G price.

[kuniklo]

The FM/AM mod with the oscillator is cool, and the loop modulation stuff is more flexible than the big boys, but, I agree that $200 is too much. ShortCircuit stomps its guts out.

Other than drag & drop within live this is distinctly inferior to third party samplers costing less.

[hoffman2k]

The thing with sampler compared to other major players when it comes to pricing...
You only have to pay it once.
Ableton won't charge you for improvements to Sampler/Operator in Live 7/8/9/.....

Where as with kontakt for example... They'll probably let you do a 200$ upgrade whenl it's UB compatible.

The main problem with Sampler is Ableton's marketing dept., not Sampler itself.

It's more then just any old sampler.
Yet it's less then the concept everybody thinks about when they hear the word "Sampler".

[stale bread]

It's more then just any old sampler.
Yet it's less then the concept everybody thinks about when they hear the word "Sampler".

you mean like no fckn 'audio slicing feature'!!!!

c'mon hoffman how can all of these slicing apps be in everybody's arsenal but i be an idiot for wondering why the hootnanny there isn't one in ableto Live.

they're going to get my money cause I love using this application but they'd get even more respect from me if they admitted that they f**ked up

[pdxindy]

The thing with sampler compared to other major players when it comes to pricing...
You only have to pay it once.
Ableton won't charge you for improvements to Sampler/Operator in Live 7/8/9/.....

Is that something Ableton has specifically stated? or is that just what has happened with Operator on 1 upgrade?

If it is the former, that would actually play a part in my interest to purchase it. Knowing for sure that Sampler v2 and v3 will cost nothing extra is an appealing feature right there.

[johnnytluxury]

hootnanny

Classic......

[hoffman2k]

It's more then just any old sampler.
Yet it's less then the concept everybody thinks about when they hear the word "Sampler".

you mean like no fckn 'audio slicing feature'!!!!

c'mon hoffman how can all of these slicing apps be in everybody's arsenal but i be an idiot for wondering why the hootnanny there isn't one in ableto Live.

they're going to get my money cause I love using this application but they'd get even more respect from me if they admitted that they f**ked up

Look, when it comes to the slicer i can only say one thing. Have patience.
The elements are in place, it already works manually.
Just cut Ableton some slack and give them the time to implement the perfect solution.
Live 6 is in beta, so don't expect it now.
But if this release goes smoother then the one Live 5 had, You could find the solution in a 6.xx update. (don't blame me if it takes longer )

Sorry that i have to be so cryptic. But thats because i had the chance to be part of the alpha. I legally cant say anything more then "I've seen things "

[hoffman2k]

The thing with sampler compared to other major players when it comes to pricing...
You only have to pay it once.
Ableton won't charge you for improvements to Sampler/Operator in Live 7/8/9/.....

Is that something Ableton has specifically stated? or is that just what has happened with Operator on 1 upgrade?

If it is the former, that would actually play a part in my interest to purchase it. Knowing for sure that Sampler v2 and v3 will cost nothing extra is an appealing feature right there.

With every major update, there are improvements to the built-in instruments and/or effects.
It hasn't been officially stated by ableton. But thats the way i understand how it works.
For one simple reason....

What will they do in Live 7? Include only half of the operator/sampler if you don't pay an upgrade for those devices?

If they intended to make money off the upgrades of their instruments. then they would have released them as Vst/AU plugins too.

Operator and Sampler aren't the cheapest options on the market.
But their integration with Live kicks major ass.

[MRoc]

the morphing filter was never anounced as an EMU z-plane filter, it's just morphing the type and that can be again modulated by e.g. lfo.

the lack of timestretching can be compensated by choosing a really small loop with crossfade and setting up an beat synced lfo to modulate the loop start. for getting best results you only have to enable the snap parameter that let the loop snap to zero crossings found by the analysis. this is as good as Live's build-in timestretching mode 'Tones'. but it's more than that. you can drive the loop by any lfo waveform and this is what makes it a real fun.

[headquest]

Operator and Sampler aren't the cheapest options on the market.
But their integration with Live kicks major ass.

I doubt anyone would disagree with you there, but I think the beef people have with Sampler (and Operator when it first appeared) is that it is being sold as a seperate product from Live.

I notice too that on the "Wuite Disappointed with Sampler" thread at Ableton, Robert Henke contributed this:

The fact that you cannot control sampe sstart, loop start and loop length in Sampler directly via MIDI or automation / clip envelopes is NOT part of a brilliant new concept, it is just not finished yet, and unfortunaltely i cannot even promise it will be in in 6.0. The only statement i can give here is, that i am also missing it like hell and will make sure it's priority will remain high.....

You may well be right that there will be no future upgrade costs associated specifically with the Sampler instrument, but at this stage should they be charging $200 for a product that is quite clearly UNFINISHED even by their own admission?

IMHO it might have been better for them to postpone Sampler until January NAMM (as they did with Operator in 2005) and in the meantime try to get it to a finished state including the features they planned. Then it might well justify that price tag...

Also reviews and ratings are based on the original product launched, not the little (but in this case essential) extras that come along in a .xx download later...

[meister eder]

the lack of timestretching can be compensated by choosing a really small loop with crossfade and setting up an beat synced lfo to modulate the loop start. for getting best results you only have to enable the snap parameter that let the loop snap to zero crossings found by the analysis. this is as good as Live's build-in timestretching mode 'Tones'.

I've done that with Simpler in the past, using a Clip Envelope to drive the sample startpoint. What you get sounds exactly like the 'Tones' algorithm!

Set Sample Start to 50%, set Loop to 0%, set Lenght to 0%.
Set up a Clip Envelope for Sample Start, that goes straight from -50% to 50% over the desired lenght that you want to 'timestretch' the sample to.
Create a dummy clip (with the Clip Envelope set up like this) and drag it to the browser, so you have your Timestretch-Simpler available instantly all the time.

[meister eder]

I notice too that on the "Wuite Disappointed with Sampler" thread at Ableton, Robert Henke contributed this:

The fact that you cannot control sampe sstart, loop start and loop length in Sampler directly via MIDI or automation / clip envelopes is NOT part of a brilliant new concept, it is just not finished yet, and unfortunaltely i cannot even promise it will be in in 6.0. The only statement i can give here is, that i am also missing it like hell and will make sure it's priority will remain high.....

That's kind of odd, since you can do it with Simpler already now (see post above).
I would have thought that Sampler was based on the Simpler engine...

[meister eder]

That's kind of odd, since you can do it with Simpler already now (see post above).
I would have thought that Sampler was based on the Simpler engine...

But now that I think about it, the reason it might be hard to implement into Sampler is that for multiple samples you would have to have tons of Clip Envelopes (up to 128) in the list. Multiply that by 5 for Sample Start, Loop and Loop Length, Release Loop and Release Loop Lenght, and you'd have 640 envelopes just for that.

Since from what I read it seems in Live6 you can even load (but not edit) multisamples in Simpler, I guess it's more like they rewrote Simpler based on the Sampler engine.
So I hope they did not take out the feature of having a Clip Envelope for Sample Start in Simpler!

Can anyone from the alpha/beta list confirm that the feature is still there?