energyXT on Linux

[paulmerchant]

Wow, the first time I write something positive about Linux around here and look what happens. I didn't realize that this was so controversial. I guess I should be flattered that I sound like a Linux marketer (whatever that is).

For the record, I installed Ubuntu Linux last week (played a bit with some live CD's and Mepis before that). I've been using Ubuntu almost exclusively ever since because I didn't know that this very customizable and responsive OS and all of these applications, like office suites, image editors, 3D applications, development tools, sequencers, synths, multitrack audio studios, etc. were "laughable." Oh well. To each their own. I'm going to continue using Linux, but maybe I'll be a little more careful about telling others why I'm excited about it.

[keyman_sam]

keyman-sam, you are entitled to your opinion. But before deciding to throw around insults you should perhaps consider who you are hitting with them.

hint #1: Jorgen has clearly stated more than once that he likes using Linux (and he uses Ubuntu) as much as he likes using XP.

hint #2: you are Jorgen's guest here in this forum.


Read again what you wrote - do you think there might be something in your posts in this thread you should feel a bit embarrassed about?

Good points. I read it again. If i were a linux user, i'd be pretty pissed by now. So, i apologize. My hatred wasn't against LINUX users, but rather linux itself.

It may be because i'm completely ignorant of what Linux can do, or perhaps its because the one and only time I used it (which was a short period of time), i couldnt for the love of god get AIM to install in my computer and ended up using some crappy online messaging service, or perhaps its because of all those lunatic fanboys who shoutout "Windows is gaaay. Linux rules cos its open source. Microsoft is evil". It must be the combination of all three.

My rant should be directed towards THOSE fanboys (who hate Windows users and feel a sense of superiority due to their choice of OS), and not the regular users/devs of linux. I was purely frustrated when i used Linux because I couldnt get a simple thing working. Yeah, you could say i'm a dumbass. But the thing is, I could have installed AIm(or anything for that matter) in windows even with my eyes closed.


Again, apologies for coming off rudely. I'm not going to edit my original post because though it wasnt connected to the topic, it represents my thoughts and feelings about linux and linux fanboys. I stand by my argument, but I do apologize for taking this thread OT unnecessarily and pissing off a lot of people.

[Lump]

I have a very realistic view about linux and audio because I use this stuff everyday: only Ardour is a near to professionel recording tool - but working as a virtual composer with audiolinux it is pain in the ass. This is because the linux audio apps are nice, but mostly only a sketch or a proof of concept. Linux audio devs are mostly hobbist and haven't the time, the money or the experience to make apps like Steinberg or Apple do. So I have high hopes to eXT2 - also JackLab will featuring this app, when it's fullfill all my expectations (jack support, VST w32 support, etc)

[bmanic]

I feel that the Linux world is full of people that remind me of my father (he also happens to be one of the earliest adopters of linux and a huge fan of it. Within 3 months or so of Linus Torvalds new creation he was already promoting it as the next big thing in the world. Well, what do you know? He was right. ). People that are kind of "professors". They start a project, just to prove that it is possible and then drop it without polishing it's usability or GUI.

I myself sometimes fall into this category when it comes to composing music. I get an idea, create a short consept of it but never finish the song so that other people might enjoy the full complete work. This is because I have no real need to finish the song as it's already fully completed inside my head.

.. yes, I know, I need serious !

Cheers!
bManic

[paulmerchant]

I've only had Ubuntu running a week, but so far I've played with Ardour for audio (a bit different, but certainly good), seq24 for midi (sometimes there's power in simplicity), Hydrogen (does the drums just fine), Qsynth (for soundfont samples), and SynAddSubFx (a strange creature, but it seems like the only Linux synth out there that I might like). I don't see how recording or composition is going to be a pain with these programs (as long as I accept that these are the only tools I might have to work with). I certainly don't think any of these applications are abandoned proof of concepts.

I've seen some interesting modular tools, a couple of FT type trackers (none of the good ones seem to work with ALSA or midi or any synths), and I briefly looked at MuSE and Rosegarden. (I'm already quite familiar with Audacity.)

Today I'm going to look into something called Ecasound (no idea what it is, maybe something like Csound) and figure out how to use impulse responses on Linux (there seems to be something called Brutefir and some different front ends).

Anyway, my week has been exciting and fun. But I'm not going to delete any Windows partitions right away. However, once I have XT2 on this thing and a either more VSTs or ways to use my Windows VSTs, I won't hesitate to use Linux exclusively for my audio.

[Lump]

I've only had Ubuntu running a week, but so far I've played with Ardour for audio (a bit different, but certainly good), seq24 for midi (sometimes there's power in simplicity), Hydrogen(does the drums just fine), Qsynth (for soundfont samples), and ZynAddSubFx (a strange creature, but it seems like the only Linux synth out there that I might like). I don't see how recording or composition is going to be a pain with these programs (as long as I accept that these are the only tools I might have to work with). I certainly don't think any of these applications are abandoned proof of concepts.

Yeah, you're checking a week, I'm using Linux since almost 2 years. The apps you describe are nice ones, thats true. Not so bad. The modular concept behind jackclients is truly a revolutionary one.

But the modular concept has a big problem (my k.o. criteria):

NO (working) TOTAL RECALL.

You have to open every single jackclient and load a preset - make all that routings manualy. In your setup that are five programms, and a sixth, jack control.

There is no way to save this setup (a drummachine, a multitimbral synth, a multitimbral sampler, a midi sequencer and an audiosequencer) together as one setup. And thats only a small setup.

I had 3 levels as linux user:
1 "euphoria" - wow thats so fantastic
2 "depression" - it is killing my spontaneous ideas
3 "reality" - lot to do but nice concept

Most of you dosn't need to have the level euphoria and depression and can go straight to reality. But I needed this as inital energy for maintaining the openSUSE JackLab which is analog to Ubuntustudio.

So this reality is my state of mind since one year - I realized that I'm not really productive with audiolinux, cos this endless clicking killing my creativity. So I decided to use audiolinux only for (live)recording and postproduction, but for composing and jamming still win32 and eXT.

There is a way to save jackclient setups "total recall" - it called LASH but the dev of the jackclient has explicity support this demon in his application - so only a very few apps are supported.

So I see the development of linux audio since 3 years and ok, there is something happening. JACK and Ardour are pretty stable now a a few promising apps are around. But this needs time -time -lots of time.

Sorry, but in most aspects audio linux apps are proof of concept, and not mature applications. OK, some nice ideas - but also a lot of bugs (ZynAdd, H2 are often buggy from one release to the other).

However eXT: open your template, start to make music in a very stable enviroment and after save your work.

In comparison to a system with eXT as host and 300 freebee vst plugins a native audio linux system is poor - but it has a good potential to be a very good one - made by human people like you and me and jorgen.

Audiolinux need couraged developers like Jorgen to make the break - I think the autum will be very hot for Linux and I'm very happy about this outlook.

[zOap]

Lump, I agree with you on some points. audiolinux has a bit to go before it can be as easy as win/osx on audio, but the roadmap is there and the progression is very promising - to me atleast..

As I see it there are some highlights to be aware of:
--Jack - it's the best thing happened to linuxaudio - ever. with some finetouch it will be awsome.
--Ardour - Ardour is on the steps for a new version, gtk2 wow!, with some very promising FR's. I do all my mixes in Ardour, simply because I love it. And paired with JaMin it produces excellent results.
--eXt2 - This will be a big wow experience, I love that it's going to be native X gui, and that there are going to be native LinVSTi's available. Most Win VST should work with VSTServer or.. and I've managed to get all my plugins to work, no crashed!!! I have some concerns with plugins however, since I do not like to use 'emulators' to do the job. Hopefully big companies will in the future see how nice Linux is to do audio on, and how easy it is for them to recompile to native X format.

There are however some obsticles, but they are being overcomed as we speak. There are a pretty big and enthusiastic linuxaudio user/dev base and it will go stronger and bigger.

All in all I'd have to say that I love to do audio on Linux, to be able to use my resources on the task at hand - audio - not adware scanners and virus tools. And if I want some changes, chances are that the developer are more than willing to do them, if they're reasonable, I'll prolly have them in a week or so:) Much like eXT really..

I have a good feeling about this, but I'm not expecting eXT2 Linux to be a voila, maybe a small one:), but it will push things in the right direction, for sure..

Happy linuxaudio everyone

[xsub]

Wow, Well, sorry but I haven't read the majority of this thread, there's many excellent posts I see, and I am very happy to read about this.

I have been using ubuntu, and it really has great potential, and I can see it taking off big time, the user base is just amazingly huge too!

The only thing stopping me from going to linux 100% is the music side.. I really want a good sequencer and VST support, if I get them, then that's me sorted!

[farlukar]

The only thing stopping me from going to linux 100% is the music side.. I really want a good sequencer and VST support, if I get them, then that's me sorted!

Hmmm- reminds me of some app to be released real soon.

[Amberience]

The only thing stopping me from going to linux 100% is the music side.. I really want a good sequencer and VST support, if I get them, then that's me sorted!

Hmmm- reminds me of some app to be released real soon.

Dance Ejay: Linux Edition???

[AllenPOPO]

yeah i dual-boot ubuntu and xp--not a big deal...im definitely no linux guru but i have installed ubuntu studio and have toyed with it..i really love dapper and when xt2 comes out, i imagine i will be booting in to it a lot more-- i am most interested in fixing up the working, yet "gui-less" vsts** with the help of jorgens teaching looks like its gonna be a hot autumn indeed......



** im studying web design with an emphasis on user interfaces...so it would be cool to get into that...iim dreaming of xt2 it seems every friggin night!

[paulmerchant]

Sorry, but in most aspects audio linux apps are proof of concept, and not mature applications. OK, some nice ideas - but also a lot of bugs (ZynAdd, H2 are often buggy from one release to the other)..

Yes, there are way more abandoned proof of concepts than anything else. But that shouldn't discredit the apps that are mature and/or maturing.

Thanks, Lump, for that overview of your experiences. I'm sure it will save me some time. I can already see that without XT2, actual composing in Linux is going to take some quirky workflows.

And yes, I'm still in the stage of enjoying the newness of everything. Excuse the analogy, but last time I looked at Linux as a desktop, about 5 years ago, it seemed like a tractor or a combine. Now, perhaps, it's some kind of sports car with a bunch of tractor under the hood. I'm just excited that today there are truly more than two (MS and Mac) cars on the road.

[glurgle]

I agree with Lump on a lot of points. I use linux as my day-to-day and windows as my music workstation. Even when eXT2 gets ported to linux, I will continue using windows for all the VSTs. As more plugs get ported over though, I'll be using windows less and less. Then if I can get my bandmate comfortable in eXT2, (using some dual platform VSTS) then I'll have one less thing (tracktion) holding me to windows. I don't particularly mind windows, I just like using linux more for day-to-day and development work.

[dolson]

keyman_sam, it's ok if you have bad experiences with Linux. It is not the same as Windows, so I wouldn't expect anyone to be immediately a sysadmin with a new, unfamiliar OS. I've used Linux for so long now, I probably couldn't do what you do in Windows because it's become less familiar to me, over time.

Anyhow, for AIM, I use the Gaim multi-protocol client, which might be the one that you tried and hated.. I don't even know if there is a real AOL-supported AIM client for Linux because I use MSN, Yahoo, AIM, ICQ, and IRC, and so using Gaim is good for me, as it does all five of them.

Linux isn't for everyone, I accept that, and I hope that you accept that Windows isn't for everyone too. I use Ubuntu and Debian at work too, and so it is, in some cases, a real alternative to Windows. I do own a Windows XP Pro license and CD, but I don't use it because I just don't like it. I tried dual booting for a while but it just ends up that I don't reboot into Windows at all because I'm lazy, and so I just keep all my disk space free for storing movies, games, and music rather than have a few gigs of space taken up by an OS that I just couldn't be bothered to boot into. I'm sure it's the same for people who are happy with Windows and would rather have the disk space than keep a copy of SUSE or Ubuntu around that they never use. Know what I mean? Yes, I do acknowledge that Windows is the current standard, and if people are happy with it, then I wouldn't force them to use Linux. But I'm happy to help anyone who wants to try it.

------

Anyhow, I am happy about energyXT coming to Linux, and that's what this is all about. However, in the time between now and when it becomes available, there are some other apps to try out. I just installed a program called LMMS, version 0.2.1. It seems pretty cool, but I haven't had time to explore it a lot. It seems to aim to be an all-in-one app, with some VST support of some kind (almost certainly via Wine), synths, sampling, etc. It seems to have more rapid development than Wired does, and it looks like maybe it will become a top contender on the Linux audio front in no time. The developer of the soft-sampler appliction called Specimen recently resigned and retired the project, and stated that he would likely be helping out the LMMS project in the future, so that has to count for something too.

2002 is when I recorded my first song under Linux, using multitrack recorder, Audacity. In the years since, Audacity itself has come a long long way, and the upcoming release is even better (1.3 beta) with more features. LMMS is still new, and already it's shaping up to be great. seq24, with a few changes, would be very easy for a Roland MC-505 or Yamaha RM1x user (like myself) to slip into as a standalone software loop-based sequencer. Ardour is pretty good already, but is lacking intuitivity (if that's a word). The documentation is outdated and incomplete, but I would expect as much right now. There are tons of other apps out there too, but those are a few that I've checked out that seem to be shaping up in recent time.

They are not easy to learn for some people, and perhaps the biggest problem with adoption is VST support. So I think you can see why I am excited and happy with energyXT's possibilities. I think it's also a chance to see that there is a small but present market. And if the other apps don't fill people's needs, then XT2 may, and the option will be there.

Anyhow, I am excited about this, and if it's out in time (read: before I get off my lazy ass to do it) then I will pony up and likely attempt to use XT2 for my album.

[keyman_sam]

Good and valid points. Agreed and accepted. Linux isnt for me, as Windows isnt for some people.