M/S Linked Mastering Limiter

[kylen]

My Favorite Mastering Limiters Right now are:
Kjaerhus MPL-1
Voxengo Elephant

Right now I'm listening to some Bob Ludwig (haha sick ain't I - I mean John Mellencamp) and I've convinced myself he's doing mono/side limiting using various degrees of linking percentages - kind of like we can do in Elephant except with a stereo matrix. Endorphin does this in m/s also but is a compressor (Sasha started all this I think! ).

Both Kjaerhus and Voxengo have m/s matrix technology in their other plugins - what's the chance of putting that into the mastering limiters as an option complete with linkage. I think it's a missing link (convinced myself it is anyway) to a big fat wide sound...

Thanks for any comments - especially from Kjaer & Vox!

[ToneCarver]

How about putting something like Voxengo's MSED before the limiter to decode stereo to M/S, and again after the limiter to encode M/S back to stereo ? Would that work ? (have not tried it myself)

[kylen]

Yes that works but the Mono/Side relationship is for all intents and purposes really unlinked (even if the limiter is in linked mode - the mono and side portion levels are too far apart to affect each other in a natural way).

I believe that linking the m/s relationship would have a greater effect - just as when the stereo relationship is linked or not linked.

[kylen]

On the other hand I suppose I could manually create a type of pre-emphasis with MSED and kick up the SIDE level so that the MONO/SIDE can begin to react to each other using the normal Stereo Linkage, then with the 2nd MSED de-emph the SIDE back to where I want it.

That would take longer to tweak and I need to allow for ear settle in time...that could work though!

[bmanic]

I've been asking this kind of linkage long time ago. It's really nice to have. In the sintefex this is exactly how the mid/side processing works (and is one of the biggest reasons that I haven't sold it yet). You can separately, percentually make each channel react to the other in 1% increments. It's an extremely powerful feature.

I really do hope that in the future we get more flexible M/S processing in all possible plugins!

Cheers!
bManic

[kylen]

Cool bmanic - that's 2 of us now! I'm glad you think it's a worthwhile potential feature since you carry a lot of compression weight around here!

I'm going to try the temporary workaround mentioned above but I suspect m/s linkage might have more to it than that simple manual method...

[bmanic]

The cool thing is, I usually put an EQ in the sidechain of the Mid side and boost the low end to get the mid to pump, but then I lower the linkage to the side channel to around 30-60%, a little depending on the type of music, to keep it from giving that illusion of exessive pumping (the ear seems to be quite sensitive to stereo wide pumping but tolerates when the mid channel is doing it!).

It's a really good way of getting the whole track to "pump" in a nice way but still keeping the sides intact. Speaking of which, I'll try to post some examples of this in action in the compressor thread.

Cheers!
bManic

[egarrard]

Isn't that what UA's Fairchild 670 plug does?

[kylen]

I beleive it does as far as the Lat-Vert function compared to m/s mode on other plugs like Endorphin compressor. We just want that feature in a Mastering Limiter!