VSTis as good as hardware? Similar to Access Virus Quality?

[nuffink]

but it is a MAGIC box!

Possibly. A bit like...



No, hold on that's your favourite magic box isn't it. The hardware fairies are real in that one.

[the_nihilist]

EDIT: I'm going to actually add some content to this post.

It feels like too many people just judge synths by their presets, or how well they do popular sounds. Recently I've been going through all my plugins and seeing what kinds of sounds I could get out of them, emphasizing the free or "limited" synths I have. I found out that 3xOsc in FL is actually a really powerful synth, with some impressive modulation capabilities, and an SVF filter that has a bit of character. With a bit of creativity, I even got something that's not dissimilar to the HUEG VIRUZ arps posted here. Certainly, no one in a club would really notice or care if the two were switched.

What I'm saying is that too many damn people think of the virus as some sort of generic supersaw machine, when it's just a synth like any other. It has a flexible mod matrix and it has some nice onboard effects, but it's still not going to do anything radically different than any other synth with similar features.

[projectdan]

i remember a thread about 1-2 years ago where the virus is just software in a box crowd finally got a test to prove it once and for all - 24 trance patches (12 froma virus 12 from zeta) were put up blind - people had to find the virus patches

alas they could - one guy got 12 out of 12 i got 9 out of 12 etc etc etc

now the obvious explanation is that the zeta patches were no good - but it really wasn't like that - the patches were well made and covered the same areas

but anyway it stopped the nothing great about virus hollering for at least a month

do we need one again ?

All that proves is they werent Virus emulations, which they werent. Different synths obviously sound different, we all know that. If people could stop equating emulation with equivelant and any difference meaning one has too be better and one worse (and automatically supposing the hardware is the better), these type of threads might not get so silly.

@Spec3d - SOS think the internal sample rate of the T1 is 44khz/48khz its just the A/D and D/A that are higher sample rates.

[aciddose]

nuffink, the_nihilist, read what i said in that thread again before acting like morons. what i was discribing about the dx7 is that the box is indeed magic, and even if it were empty, i would still want one just for the box.

you seem to have baddly clouded perceptions with regard to these things. the virus actually does have many specific qualities which make it sound better than your average daw. if you want to produce ("fm") sounds, you dont need a dx7. if you want to produce dx7 sounds, you do. likewise for trance kiddie sounds, or generic subtractive sounds and the virus. if you want to mimic some particular sound you heard on a track, where you know the author used a virus, you'll probably want to use a virus to do that.

what kind of a pussy would do that though? how many kiddies are constantly trying to reproduce the 'benny benassi saw wave'.

as a general synth, the virus is fairly good, but it doesnt have a whole lot to compete with most software, even free software. fm7 is good as a general synth too, but if you can come anywhere f**king near playing the same quality pressing those little keys with your mouse, i dont know, i'll be a bit surprised. good luck taking just your laptop and fm7 to a gig!

i'm in no way being hypocritical with my statements here, if you feel i am, you must not be able to concive of a possible difference between the two types of statement, and the two contexts. if so, you have my pity.

and i'll add this on. let me clarify what i ment when i said "likewise for trance kiddie sounds, or generic subtractive sounds and the virus."

i ment, if you're going after those typical trance kiddie super saw sounds, you do not need a virus. if you're going after some other very simple sounds, you do not need a virus. you'll never be able to justify the purchase of a virus simply for those sounds, you'll never be able to convince anybody it can make those sounds better than any other decent synthesizer out there.

if you want to make specifically virus sounds, then yes, you need a virus! i'm sure it has a lot of its own character, although i still have yet to hear any of it myself. it does not make a very good solo instrument in my opinion because it has far to many semi-workstation features. i bet that it is extremely good as a semi-workstation, which is exactly what most electronic music producers are looking for. if you want to press one key or do covers of your favorate kiddie trance tracks, keep your money, keep your mouth shut, and use something other than a virus. if you want an all-in-one production synth and are not interested in any other features, go for it.

the virus isnt the best synthesizer of all time, and it especially will not convince anyone it is if you only use it for kiddie trance. considering what i've heard from it so far, i think the best it can do is convince people it is "a" decent synthesizer, just like all the other decent synthesizers out there.

that is the mindset i've had with everything i've written in this thread.

[Algorythm]

Its pointless to compare an emulation with another emulation.Virus is an emulator built inside specific hardware. Let's compare emulators with real analogs..this is the point. Every month i hear a new soft synth that its better than famous others.This is evolution!Virus won't get too much further (Access already started to advertise new features like TI) to make us buy its products.There is so much competition and in about 2 or 3 years we wont have to do discussions like this because there would be no arguments that software sounds like hardware.(In many cases already does!) Virus is just a very good software in a hardware unit that will look ancient in two years with the new processors that are available for pcs. I've tested Korg Legacy Cell at a friend's pc with a new AMD processor, and with one of the most assuming presets,it hardly goes beyond 13% of cpu with 10 voices!I won't pray any Virus.I never did.The only good i find on it it's the hardware quality.Nothing else.

[Spe3D]

@Spec3d - SOS think the internal sample rate of the T1 is 44khz/48khz its just the A/D and D/A that are higher sample rates.

I am not going to bother checking out the SOS article - I can say just this statement is wrong though, with regards to A/D D/A both offering high sample rates, as only the D/A offers the higher sample rate of 192 kHz

[nuffink]

nuffink, the_nihilist, read what i said in that thread again before acting like morons.

Ok. I'm on my way back to review your, ever fascinating, contribution to the argument*. I may be gone some time.




*This is a lie. On more than one level.

[kmonkey]

Thanks a lot for this sound example man and all the info. I will indeed take a listen in a moment. I'd love to see more sound examples of the Virus since I have only heard it used in a mix by great artists like Above & Beyond & BT. There was also a great little video demo of a guy using the Virus Powercore on the TC site if I remember correctly which was rather awesome but not long enough

I really gotta go check it out for myself to decide if it is significantly better than VSTis in general. It's not that I'm looking for that particular character, it's more about quality and featureset. Zebra2 is an incredible synth that appears to provide as many features as the Virus if not more, obviously, it doesn't provide the exact same features as the Access, but nonetheless, it has a huge sonic palette of possibilities.

The xhip synth and Synth1 are incredible sounding instruments for freebies, it is amazing what is available for free these days isn't it ?

There's no need for argument or debate here, I was just keen to hear what Virus users thought of VSTis essentially, did they match the quality ? .etc Is there something that makes the Virus significantly more powerful ? .etc

Sure, the topic has taken a few turns but all the info is great to read and very useful. Thank you all for contributing !

Fots

Well, you may not like the examples on that page very much, as they emulate the sounds of the day... in 1977, but it does at least speak to the versatility of the Virus a little bit. That Equinoxe remake is spot-on marvellous.

After listening to the impressive XSynth.com work by Michael Kastrup using mainly the oft-maligned, 6-year-old Subtractor in Reason, I am more convinced than ever that in the hands of a skilled and talented programmer, any of the richly featured VA synthesizers (VSTi or hardware) we have been discussing have mountains of potential (that largely go untapped, especially in the hands of a hack like myself). The weak link in my sound (very weak, I might add) is not the synth, but me. With the type of sound you are looking for though, it may simply be easiest to coax it out of VSTi's like z3ta+, Vanguard, Zebra2, Synth1 etc... as they can quickly produce that very forward and aggressive sound so sought after in the techno/trance realm, but why not just invest in a used Virus B? They can be found on eBay extremely cheap these days and I doubt you would be disappointed. It's a very complete package that consumes no CPU power and has a tactile interface you can actually grab and tweak, not to mention making a nice controller interface for your VSTi's as well.

-Tronam

Yes this is awesome Jarre rework and yes that dude at Xsynth.com can squeze serious shit from subtractor. All in all good and funny thread

[aciddose]

nuffink; if you remove all of aq' and your own sidetracking unrelated bullshit comments from the thread, you might see what i was actually saying in that thread.

by the way, thanks for also commiting to sidetracking bullshit additions to this thread!

[BONES]

OK, here is a stripped own WaspXT sound. It uses PWM so you can chuck those saws away for this and do something decent for a change. No Unison or Dual mode, just the synths unaugmented oscillators and filter. No effects, no EQ, no post-processing.

One synth to rule them all

See how Virus goes with this. Give xhip a spin as well if you like.

[ericj23]

i remember a thread about 1-2 years ago where the virus is just software in a box crowd finally got a test to prove it once and for all - 24 trance patches (12 froma virus 12 from zeta) were put up blind - people had to find the virus patches

I don't. Would you like to provide a link?

Oh and by the way. The virus is just software in a box.

well duh - where exactly did i state anything else ?- my point is not about how good it is or isn't - its about the boring idiots on their soap box about things that cannot let this kind of thread die - all the good stuff from k-v-r (and there are so amny things ive learned from here it's scary) are slowly getting blanked out by the decreasing signal to noise ratio

and how odd you cant remember it - you posted in it several times - selective memory ? anyway http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/archive/i ... /31588.php

enjoy

[aciddose]

did somebody post a midi of that sequence somewhere already? i'm too damn lazy to step record such a corny arpeggio.. oh well, i'll give it a go.

i'm too tired to mess with supersaws, so i did this instead:

http://xhip.cjb.net/temp/public/xhipcyber.mp3

since we're on the 'trying not to sound like a kiddie trance patch' mode anyway.

hrm, one of those sounds mp3 doesnt cut it for.

http://xhip.cjb.net/temp/public/xhipcyber.wav

sounds cleaner without the annoying noisy/distortion timbre of the mp3.
only 3mb.

[nuffink]

and how odd you cant remember it - you posted in it several times - selective memory ? anyway http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/archive/i ... /31588.php

enjoy

I post in many virus threads, they amuse me. I don't remember that one. I wonder about your memory too since I see no sign in there of...

one guy got 12 out of 12 i got 9 out of 12 etc etc etc

[nuffink]

nuffink; if you remove all of aq' and your own sidetracking unrelated bullshit comments from the thread, you might see what i was actually saying in that thread.

by the way, thanks for also commiting to sidetracking bullshit additions to this thread!

My pleasure.

[aciddose]

i figured if we're talking about filters, i'd better do one where the filter's quality shows clearly. you can hear some crunchy/noisy bits when i sweep up, i havent compensated things entirely yet. i'll want to do some extra stuff to remove aliasing, and the crunchyness will be gone with it.

anyway though, i doubt the virus can do anything even remotely like this. i do not think very many individuals would be able to come up with a modular analog system to reproduce this type of sound either. it is fairly unique to xhip, as xhip uses a truly novel filter design.

http://xhip.cjb.net/temp/public/ressor.mp3

bones, i cant produce a pwm sound quite as nice as yours. the complex waveform has a good bit to do with it, but the filter you're using sounds alright as well. do you know anything technical about it, should i bother asking?