Using my Yamaha P-200 as a MIDI controller, mainly for piano libraries, I'm finding it difficult to get that perfect response from the sample library as I do from my internal sounds. Now, libraries like Art Vista's, Post's, Worra's are far superior to those in my P-200. However, they're not as "playable" mainly thanks to the velocity output sent via MIDI from the P-200, no matter what hardware velocity curve I set. While I can go into Kontakt and manually change the sample MIDI levels, I'd have to do this for every instrument in my arsenal, some of which are non-Kontakt VSTis, too!
So, I figured I'd look for a MIDI velocity scaler and, surprisingly, came up with very little. The best bet I found to date was from MusicLab of RealGuitar fame. This is an MFX plug-in, though.
I'm using Tracktion 2 which does not support MFX, unfortunately. The only MFX/VST wrapper I've ever come across is from Steinberg (I also own, but no longer use Cubase SX2). Naturally, I would not expect this to work in Tracktion.
If anyone here has come across a decent plug-in, free or pay, I would be very interested in it! It would be great to be able to "dial in" a velocity reponse setting based on any VSTi or sample library I have. Thanks for any suggestions!
-- Chris Jarzynka
VST MIDI Velocity Curve Scaler for Tracktion
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- KVRist
- 188 posts since 28 Jan, 2005
have you tried just using the standard Tracktion volume/pan filter before your instrument? Make sure the "apply to midi velocities" box is ticked. I *think* this is what you're asking for.
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- KVRAF
- 8519 posts since 7 Apr, 2003
http://www.niallmoody.com/ndcplugs/jarzynka wrote:Using my Yamaha P-200 as a MIDI controller, mainly for piano libraries, I'm finding it difficult to get that perfect response from the sample library as I do from my internal sounds. Now, libraries like Art Vista's, Post's, Worra's are far superior to those in my P-200. However, they're not as "playable" mainly thanks to the velocity output sent via MIDI from the P-200, no matter what hardware velocity curve I set. While I can go into Kontakt and manually change the sample MIDI levels, I'd have to do this for every instrument in my arsenal, some of which are non-Kontakt VSTis, too!
So, I figured I'd look for a MIDI velocity scaler and, surprisingly, came up with very little. The best bet I found to date was from MusicLab of RealGuitar fame. This is an MFX plug-in, though.
I'm using Tracktion 2 which does not support MFX, unfortunately. The only MFX/VST wrapper I've ever come across is from Steinberg (I also own, but no longer use Cubase SX2). Naturally, I would not expect this to work in Tracktion.
If anyone here has come across a decent plug-in, free or pay, I would be very interested in it! It would be great to be able to "dial in" a velocity reponse setting based on any VSTi or sample library I have. Thanks for any suggestions!
-- Chris Jarzynka
http://www.asseca.com/nicfit/mungrack.html
you should be able to do it with midi mung. ndc has some nice velocity tools though.
there IS a plugin by musiclabs i think
http://www.musiclab.com/products/vmmanual/vmman.htm
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
It is perfectly possible to create VST plugs which just process MIDI, and Tracktion deals with them fine. I tend to roll my own in Synthedit... but for simple velocity scaling Daniel78 got it right: a Volume/Pan filter with "apply to MIDI velocities" ticked will do the trick. (make sure the filter is placed before the plug-in synth so it processes the MIDI data rather than the audio)jarzynka wrote:
I'm using Tracktion 2 which does not support MFX, unfortunately.
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- KVRian
- 779 posts since 3 Apr, 2003 from UK
I don't think the Vol/Pan will do the trick - he seems to be asking for alternative velocity curves, just using the Vol/Pan filter merely shifts the velocity up or down but doesn't change the shape of the curve.
Personally, I do this externally using MIDI Ox and MIDI Yoke - if you set it to map for example and incoming velocity of 1 to 27 and 127 to 127, it will recalculate all the velocities in between, so a mid range value of 64 would come out at 77. In my case this is useful as my MIDI pads are a touch on the over-sensitive side!
Personally, I do this externally using MIDI Ox and MIDI Yoke - if you set it to map for example and incoming velocity of 1 to 27 and 127 to 127, it will recalculate all the velocities in between, so a mid range value of 64 would come out at 77. In my case this is useful as my MIDI pads are a touch on the over-sensitive side!
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
Oh yes, silly me. 
You on a PC Chris? I might be able to make a simple SE plug for you if so...
You on a PC Chris? I might be able to make a simple SE plug for you if so...
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- KVRist
- 376 posts since 8 Apr, 2004 from Portland, OR
This is something I've wanted in the past too. I always thought it would have been good if it was built into Tracktion. Clicking on a MIDI input would display a velocity curve option in the context window. Clicking on that would make the context window the curve editor.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 19 posts since 1 Feb, 2005 from Salem, NH USA
Thanks very much for the offer! Well, I'd have to compensate you, if you did! If not cash, then adulation, applause, beer, food, etc?
I am on a PC running Tracktion 2. I have a Midex 8 (used to use with Cubase SX2 - yech). I tried a stand alone program called MIDI Velocity Curve (MVC) by Trombettworks. At first, I decided to skip using MIDI Yoke since I have so many inputs on the Midex, I hard wired a MIDI cable from the modified out channel to a new in channel. No dice. MVC detected my input, but the output never got to the Midex.
I then installed MIDI Yoke, but MVC wouldn't even recognize my incoming MIDI from the Midex. Sounds like a driver conflict. They did say the WinNT/2000/XP set of drivers weren't as solid as the Win9x version.
A simple solution that would allow me to apply or change the curve would be fantastic! The very nature of the Yamaha P200 has a very odd response. If you mess with the MIDI curves on the P200 (there are seven) using a softer response does help reaching the upper velocity range, but then creates a "hammer hands" effect on the lower.
It almost sounds like I need a tangent curve or something. Cool thing about MVC is that it allows you to draw a graphical "curve" (they're really linear points, but if you draw enough points you can approximate a curve) then maps each individual MIDI value to a new value.
Another great thing about a VST solution like MVC would be to have an option for a different curve depending on the library or VST. No two libraries are programmed with the same velocity response. It would be VERY COOL to be able to change responses based on the sample library used. As I mentioned before, the one thing missing from these great sample libraries for me so far has been the intimate response that I get with hardware internals. I have a feeling a MIDI velocity curve editor would go a long way!
And, seriously, if you're looking for any compensation for a project like this, I am more than happy to oblidge! The closest hardware solution is $115-$150 right now!
I am on a PC running Tracktion 2. I have a Midex 8 (used to use with Cubase SX2 - yech). I tried a stand alone program called MIDI Velocity Curve (MVC) by Trombettworks. At first, I decided to skip using MIDI Yoke since I have so many inputs on the Midex, I hard wired a MIDI cable from the modified out channel to a new in channel. No dice. MVC detected my input, but the output never got to the Midex.
I then installed MIDI Yoke, but MVC wouldn't even recognize my incoming MIDI from the Midex. Sounds like a driver conflict. They did say the WinNT/2000/XP set of drivers weren't as solid as the Win9x version.
A simple solution that would allow me to apply or change the curve would be fantastic! The very nature of the Yamaha P200 has a very odd response. If you mess with the MIDI curves on the P200 (there are seven) using a softer response does help reaching the upper velocity range, but then creates a "hammer hands" effect on the lower.
It almost sounds like I need a tangent curve or something. Cool thing about MVC is that it allows you to draw a graphical "curve" (they're really linear points, but if you draw enough points you can approximate a curve) then maps each individual MIDI value to a new value.
Another great thing about a VST solution like MVC would be to have an option for a different curve depending on the library or VST. No two libraries are programmed with the same velocity response. It would be VERY COOL to be able to change responses based on the sample library used. As I mentioned before, the one thing missing from these great sample libraries for me so far has been the intimate response that I get with hardware internals. I have a feeling a MIDI velocity curve editor would go a long way!
And, seriously, if you're looking for any compensation for a project like this, I am more than happy to oblidge! The closest hardware solution is $115-$150 right now!
IIRs wrote:Oh yes, silly me.
You on a PC Chris? I might be able to make a simple SE plug for you if so...
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
OK, I think I should have time to work on one tomorrow (I promised tonight to my woman!)
If I can get it to work ok you will be able to create presets for as many patches / libraries as you need..
If I can get it to work ok you will be able to create presets for as many patches / libraries as you need..
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- KVRAF
- 8519 posts since 7 Apr, 2003
please! that would be nice! velocity compressor/expanderIIRs wrote:Oh yes, silly me.
You on a PC Chris? I might be able to make a simple SE plug for you if so...
with 4 presets for velocity sensitivity! 
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- KVRian
- 1222 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
Me too! Me too!grymmjack wrote:please! that would be nice! velocity compressor/expanderIIRs wrote:Oh yes, silly me.
You on a PC Chris? I might be able to make a simple SE plug for you if so...
pethu.se/music-releases
Not a part of the loudness war!
Not a part of the loudness war!
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
Something like this?jarzynka wrote: Cool thing about MVC is that it allows you to draw a graphical "curve" (they're really linear points, but if you draw enough points you can approximate a curve) then maps each individual MIDI value to a new value.
Velocity Curve
You will need to set the appropriate MIDI output channel when using it with multi-timbral plugs. I've only tested it very briefly, let me know how you get on.
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- KVRAF
- 2417 posts since 17 Jun, 2003
That looks pretty cool Plat 
... I really must have a proper play with SynthEdit at some point ....
<makes note at end of huge every-growing to-do list>
... I really must have a proper play with SynthEdit at some point ....<makes note at end of huge every-growing to-do list>
"my gosh it's a friggin hardware"
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
Here's the .se1 source file if you're interested. Its pretty simple really, and only uses native synthedit modules.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 19 posts since 1 Feb, 2005 from Salem, NH USA
This is beautiful! I mean, the plug in is incredible, but it is also visually beautiful!
Thanks very much!
Thanks very much!
IIRs wrote:Something like this?jarzynka wrote: Cool thing about MVC is that it allows you to draw a graphical "curve" (they're really linear points, but if you draw enough points you can approximate a curve) then maps each individual MIDI value to a new value.
Velocity Curve
You will need to set the appropriate MIDI output channel when using it with multi-timbral plugs. I've only tested it very briefly, let me know how you get on.