KVR Audio

Mr_Wasabi · Post by **Mr_Wasabi** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:30 am

Well, I've had a nerdy, indoors weekend. This is my second take on a Mark II Stage 88 key Rhodes sample. This time it's got 9 velocity layers (there are never enough) and every white note for an octave either side of middle C.

Details and download here in sf2 (zipped using sfArk) and nki formats

There's a fender jazz bass sfz buried away in there too...

Vonbrucken · Post by **Vonbrucken** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:49 am

thank you so much !!!!

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:06 am

Thanks a lot for these! Cheers for an interesting read too .... very mad scientist

Max el Belga · Post by **Max el Belga** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:06 pm

Wow, wow !

The 2º wow goes for your JazzBass at the bottom of your site !

Tx a lot !

Max... .. .

PS : Great DIY piano player you've got there !

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:17 pm

Mr_Wasabi wrote:Well, I've had a nerdy, indoors weekend. This is my second take on a Mark II Stage 88 key Rhodes sample. This time it's got 9 velocity layers (there are never enough) and every white note for an octave either side of middle C.

Mr Wasabi - thanks for these.

At the risk of appearing greedy (Moi?) might I suggest that you sample some other notes sprinkled over the whole range - even just all the C's or better still all the C's and G's - and add those to the middle octaves. A more playable instrument would result. This is what some of the piano sample vendors offer by way of a demo (middle two octaves plus all the Cs).

What I had in mind is spreading those extra samples over the whole range so that you can play in all keys with bass accompaniments and lines and chord voicings into the treble range.

Mr_Wasabi · Post by **Mr_Wasabi** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:55 pm

Hi egbert,

I agree - but this is an experiment, not the final product. My intention with this version was just to test my striker apparatus, try to get more velocity layers working, and to become familiar with/test LearJeff's auto sampling scripts. Now that I know it all works, the next step is sort out the higher velocity notes (get more of them closer together), then sample the whole keyboard.

Does anyone have any comments about the actual sound and feel of the instrument?

computermusic500 · Post by **computermusic500** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:58 am

Even though this is just a test run I think it sounds really nice. Keep this up!

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:17 am

Mr_Wasabi wrote:Hi egbert,

I agree - but this is an experiment, not the final product.

Calling it Version 2 kinda threw me a little it seems.

My intention with this version was just to test my striker apparatus, try to get more velocity layers working, and to become familiar with/test LearJeff's auto sampling scripts. Now that I know it all works, the next step is sort out the higher velocity notes (get more of them closer together), then sample the whole keyboard.

Does anyone have any comments about the actual sound and feel of the instrument?

i actually found it difficult to get much feeling for the instrument because just about anything I would ever play would extend outside those two octaves - even a right hand voicing with a D or Eb at the top results in silence. You sampled 25 notes - another 4 or 5 notes spread over the k/board would turn this into something I could get more of a feel for. Bass note tone is pretty critical IMHO.

As far as the samples - the general sound seemed pleasant enough although it wasn't as barky as some. On the Kontakt version I noticed something a little strange when I repeatedly hit top C on your supplied range - something to do with the release samples or perhaps a limit on voices so that voices seemed to be cutting off unnaturally.

I would encourage you to persist with the project - your bungee cord system is undamped (like a car with springs but no shocks) that's why you are getting bounce. Perhaps you would be better to use gravity (free fall of weighted arm) and a sliding weight to get gradations of velocity - unless you can come up with a damping system (servo control?

)

Regards,
Eg

Mr_Wasabi · Post by **Mr_Wasabi** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:23 am

Hi egbert,

Actually, the bungee cords were added because a free weight would bounce at even tiny velocities. The bungees in effect actually DO dampen the mechanism. Unfortunately, as the velocity gets up near the bark zone, it becomes very hard to control the device and stop it bouncing etc.

I need to experiment with a wider range of weights and bungees (hopefully without breaking any keys).

As for the amount of bark - the highest velocity samples are about as much bark as it will currently produce. I probably need to boost the actualy volume of those notes to make them jump out more. The only way to get a more bark like timbre though will be to change the pickup/tine relationship. I may sample the whole thing as it is set up now, then do it again with a more agressive pickup position and tine location.

toddyjoe · Post by **toddyjoe** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:41 am

I am not sure you are going to get your Rhodes Mark II samples to be as barky as people are expecting from Fender Rhodes Mark I samples without some serious tweaking of your instrument. The early Mark I is by far the more barky of the Rhodes compared to the late 70's Mark I and Mark II pianos due to a lot of factors (wood hammers and harp supports, different tine manufacturers, etc.). But the barky, early Mark I is the instrument many of the commercial samplers use. I say you are going in the right direction trying to make a great sample set of the less-barky Mark II sound which populated a LOT of great music. After all, there are plenty of Mark I sample sets already out there to chose from.

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:45 am

Hmm - staying with a purely mechanical system - I wonder whether using a (much) heavier weight/counterweight system (but with less mechanical advantage) would give the system more inertia and make it less prone to bouncing? If the bungee cord damps the system then more of them in parallel should give you more damping.

Jafo · Post by **Jafo** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:28 am

Just downloaded. Only had time for a couple of minutes of playing, since it's midnight here and I need my sleep, but wow! This has that sound and feel we all love -- barking bellharp bliss! Sure, it still needs work and stuff (see below), but this has all the different sounds and irregularities which make a Rhodes come alive.

Still, there are a few real issues I've noticed. First, the upper octave D and G seem to have loudness errors: higher (but not the highest) velocities seem to clip. Also, the upper octave B seems a bit out of tune, and its velocity curve seems a bit "off" somehow. Also, what most of us hear as a charming and wholly appropriate looseness of pitch, might seem to some people as, umm, excessively detuned.

Still, this sounds and feels real. Kudos, and thanks!

Pantsdown666 · Post by **Pantsdown666** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:50 am

Would *love* it if someone with a translator could turn the sfz into an sf2 .... on a mac here so no sfz access. ...
Ta!
S

Mr_Wasabi · Post by **Mr_Wasabi** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:02 am

Pants - the soundfont actually IS an sf2 - zipped up using sfArk. Typing error on my part in the original post.

Pantsdown666 · Post by **Pantsdown666** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:11 am

Arigatou wasabi

Free Rhodes - Version 2