Head exploding. Too many choices. Warning: RANT/language.

[Spookyrockstar]

Like many of you here, I choose FUN factor as important a feature as the features listed on the boxes/sites of most software, but my head is exploding. There's just too many choices with too many pros/cons. It's all making me want to run and find my old Atari that ran master tracks pro!

Reason lets you hash out ideas quickly and easily. Just create the instrument, load a patch/sample, and record. But then I'm spending time replacing instruments in Cubase via rewire for various fav. VST synths. Add to that that I'm also replacing EFFECTS with my fav. UAD fx and there's more time reworking something that has already been established.

Nonetheless, REASON can be FUN because you're just loading instruments and creating music. Cubase is several mouseclicks just to connect a midi to a VST, *as well* as loading it with samples/patches. The more mouseclicks it takes for me to acheive something simple, the less inclined I am to use it. I am pretty sure this me being nit-picky, but still. (Automation in CUBASE can be *ass*, as a prime example.)

Enter FL6: Although it (sequencing) took some getting used to, I LOVED that FL supported VSTs, and also had that 'quickness' of creating and recording. Automation also a BREEZE. With VST support, I would spend less time post-facto replacing instruments seeing as I could use my favs. from the get-go. There's one HUGE drawback: Not being able to really use my crack-esque UAD cards without going through a bunch of hoops to compensate for latency. I wasn't able to use my UAD in REASON (without Rewire/Cubase) anyway, so what the hell am I whining about?

You haven't seen anything yet. I have not yet begun to be a little bitch.

Sonar, which I used since its DOS (cakewalk) version, can load up an instrument and have you running rather quickly (with its track templates), but I can't *record* using my precious f**king UADs on INPUT like I can with Cubase. This one I'm not 100% percent sure on, so someone tell me if I'm a dumb ass and that I'm wrong. As far as I know, I can only use them after the take has been recorded.

So here I am, torn between scratchpads, and full-on flagships. Flagships (IMO) aren't as intuitively quick as the Virtual racks, and the latter can't do as much as the flagships.

I could use he Scratchpads as *just that*, but I, being the nit-picky little bitch that I am, don't want to spend alot of time, after I've gotten a general sound, REPLACING virtual rack FX and instruments with my usual favs.

I used to not complain *at all* (maybe a little) when I used to do all this stuff with racks and racks of ANALOG gear, now I'm complaining about 'too many mouseclicks'?!?!?!??

I bet all of you have something to say about my silly mind-set, (because I sure as hell want to slap myself.) and I will value ALL of your input to some degree or another.

Hope I didn't start world war 3, because I pratically wrote 'War' and Peace' in this post.
-Ed

[aallvor]

Music can't be all fun all the time. Choose one app and stick to it, even if you want to smash your computer from time to time.

[beej]

So here I am, torn between scratchpads, and full-on flagships. Flagships (IMO) aren't as intuitively quick as the Virtual racks, and the latter can't do as much as the flagships.

I don't agree with that. I can achieve all of what I need to do *far* more quickly in Logic than anything else, with the advantage that I'm seldom short of a necessary feature should I need it.

This comes with knowing your tools, customising them to be your invisible scrtachpad, and having them fit-for-purpose in the first place.

In some ways single environments, like Reason, can be liberating by offering a fixed environment you can't get outside of, but then I often find I hit the walls of that environment pretty quickly, and then have to stop and do something sub-optimal to work around it, which is a barrier that slows you down significantly.

But I definitely think there's value in a restricted set of tools that really does what you need, that you can learn really well, whatever they are for your particular workflow. Continously downloading new oddball synths and FX gets you in the habit of "finding" something new, rather than "creating" it, and just keep adding more complication to your environment.

[kippertoffee]

Software is the tool. It will not help you make good music, or enjoy making music at all. Stop. Breathe. Pick one. When you get fed up and want to change, DON'T. Just stic with it.

peat.

[bobsled]

About the "exploding head" thing...thought that was just part of my learning process this past six months. Noobs like me can gain alot of knowledge by checking out the Flagship demos and their tuts...mostly they've taught me how to make the most of various "scratchpads" and other beta-apps...
I can understand why some folks would advise learning one app and sticking to it...especially those folks who've been sequencing for 15-20 years...some of the rest of us can certainly benefit from jumping into the latest "Creative Kontrol Pack" or whatever to check out the different app-specific workflows, techniques, limitations and advantages.


btw, old-timers test driving new or upgraded apps could probably run aross a few Feature Requests for their "stick-to-it" app...

[rockstar_not]

Hey,

You forgot to try Tracktion!!!

-Scott

[Spookyrockstar]

I don't agree with that. I can achieve all of what I need to do *far* more quickly in Logic than anything else, with the advantage that I'm seldom short of a necessary feature should I need it.

This comes with knowing your tools, customising them to be your invisible scrtachpad, and having them fit-for-purpose in the first place.

True enough. At one point, before I.....*heh*....'jumped ship' with Cakewalk, I could stump tech-support most of the time. I was usuing the software longer than some of the techs had been alive. They almost always had to turn me over to a higher up supervisor for my questions. When I purchased Cubase SX, to try and stay as proficient, I bought and read the various books made for the next four to five months or so, like I compulsively do with most of my software. Knowing your tools is essential.

Example:
I used to WORK at the infamous GUITAR CENTER. People would come in wanting something *new* that their *current* software/hardware had full capability of and they didn't even know it. Most would not tell them so that they could sell them more. I couldn't, and didn't last.

In some ways single environments, like Reason, can be liberating by offering a fixed environment you can't get outside of, but then I often find I hit the walls of that environment pretty quickly, and then have to stop and do something sub-optimal to work around it, which is a barrier that slows you down significantly.

Amen, brother. I love Reason, I really do. So much fun. But I *do* know those walls, as if they were a padded cell. Call me silly, but it DOES slow you down if you have to go back and replace synths and effects with you fav. VSTs post-facto. One can always run rewire, but then you're slowed down routing all the outputs to appropriate channels in CUBASE/SONAR. Maybe I could use/make track-templates in Sonar and Reason, then wouldn't spend as MUCH time routing.

You said you use LOGIC. I would *DEFinitely* check it out if I wasn't a PC user. My cross to bear, I know.

Continously downloading new oddball synths and FX gets you in the habit of "finding" something new, rather than "creating" it, and just keep adding more complication to your environment

I *have* fallen into that every once in a while. More often though, I'd rather tweak/create something I have, rather than get something new. Like my UAD and Waves plug-ins. Aside from them both being accellerated, I pretty much stick with those. Whenever I check out new software I end up TORN, and then I post some huge rant for random people to hear me whine. Oh, hey. Here I am. Damnit.

[Spookyrockstar]

Software is the tool. It will not help you make good music, or enjoy making music at all.

Very true. *Music* is the fun part, although there are many who LOVE the whole software cornucopia, for me it's .....ahem.....all about the music.

Stop. Breathe. Pick one.

Couldn't you tell, I'm in the process of picking one? This sort of 'choices overload' is why I stuck with Sonar since the dos version.

Thank you all for listening and contributing to my rants while I make the decision.

When you get fed up and want to change, DON'T. Just stic with it.

Not without a good going through the forums/books/users so as to have as much info as possible. Once I've made my decision, I'll be as loyal as I am to my UAD cards and Waves. Probably another 15-20 years, like I was with Cakewalk. (Providing my favs don't go under.) Till then, I welcome the Devil's advocate in you all.

[Spookyrockstar]

Hey,

You forgot to try Tracktion!!!

-Scott

Oh lord. More options. Will this be the holy-all-encompassing software I need? Or will it be sooo cool *just* enough to add to the evil choices dillemma?


Sigh..... where do I find it?

For someone who is pissing and moaning about being torn between too much software, I sure am quick to want to try even more, eh?

I'm reminded of John Lovitz in Little Nicky, who was running around in hell screaming: "I deserve thiiiiis! I deserve thiiiiis!!"

[grymmjack]

spooky; stuff like phrazor is designed to be a middle ground solution. it may be just what you are after. you load a vst instrument, pick a patch, hit record. then arrange in playlist the various clip recordings. you can stack effects, automate with ease, etc, check it out at www.sonicbytes.com -- it's free right now.

i feel your pain, and i switched from cubase to tracktion for this reason. tracktion is great for the "instant gratification" factor. no f'n around, arm an input, hit record, perform. check it out at www.mackie.com ...

you could always setup templates in cubase, but i know this isn't a great solution. also not sure if phrazor or tracktion can record an effect pre input or not for your UAD issue.

gl.

p.s. the nice thing about the middle stuff like phrazor: it integrates with ANY host both as an effect and instrument.. so you could still keep cubase for audio recording as an example, and rewire in flstudio or inline as vsti, and use phrazor for the other stuff.

[grymmjack]

woops someone already mentioned tracktion sorry for the redundancy. it's my favorite host, and i've tried the same you have -- and own flstudio and ext as well as phrazor, sonar, and cubase. tracktion was the best match for me. give it a shot, it wont hurt to try the nice demo and the price is very competitive. get the box version if you choose to buy though

[Spookyrockstar]

About the "exploding head" thing...thought that was just part of my learning process this past six months. Noobs like me can gain alot of knowledge by checking out the Flagship demos and their tuts...mostly they've taught me how to make the most of various "scratchpads" and other beta-apps...

It *is* a part of the learning process whenever you try new *hosts* for sure. I *am* one of those folks whove been sequencing since the 80s, so I've seen the software and the hardware progress. it's an amazing time for songwriters, composers, and musicians. Imagine what the next 20 years will bring.

btw, old-timers test driving new or upgraded apps could probably run aross a few Feature Requests for their "stick-to-it" app...

GOOOD point. It's settled then: I'm not being a whiny little punk-ass complaing about having too-many choices. I am merely figuring outwhat I want in my perfect sequencer. That sounds much better. But somehow, I still feel.......like a punk-ass.

[DevonB]

Ok, you started it, I'll rant back.

Reason lets you hash out ideas quickly and easily. Just create the instrument, load a patch/sample, and record. But then I'm spending time replacing instruments in Cubase via rewire for various fav. VST synths. Add to that that I'm also replacing EFFECTS with my fav. UAD fx and there's more time reworking something that has already been established.

So what? The most important part of writing music is actually WRITING MUSIC. Do you think the best music out there was written in one pass? Think again. If you don't want to produce, record, mix and master your tracks, then hire someone else to do it, or do it yourself. If you wanted to just 'write', then be in a band, play one instrument, and let someone else record, produce and mix the songs. The point is SOMEONE has to do it if you want a finished/polished song. Writing music is easy. Writing GOOD/finished music is work.

Nonetheless, REASON can be FUN because you're just loading instruments and creating music. Cubase is several mouseclicks just to connect a midi to a VST, *as well* as loading it with samples/patches. The more mouseclicks it takes for me to acheive something simple, the less inclined I am to use it. I am pretty sure this me being nit-picky, but still. (Automation in CUBASE can be *ass*, as a prime example.)

That is a needless whine in my opinion. Keyboard shortcuts are your friend. Use them as much as possible, and Cubase has a BOATLOAD of shortcuts you can make. I also don't understand your gripe about automation? It's there, it works, and it's pretty easy to work with, I think.

So here I am, torn between scratchpads, and full-on flagships. Flagships (IMO) aren't as intuitively quick as the Virtual racks, and the latter can't do as much as the flagships.

But you can make them quick with shortcuts and templates. That's what they are there for.

I bet all of you have something to say about my silly mind-set, (because I sure as hell want to slap myself.) and I will value ALL of your input to some degree or another.

I think you're whining needlessly, but hey, I gave constructive feedback, so don't bitch too much.

Devon

[BONES]

My take is that you need to keep looking for that illusive one-size-fit-all-your-needs application. It seems to me there are still plenty of options open to you - ORION and EnergyXT are two that spring to mind. I think ORION is more for people with a hardware background but it has a very different workflow that might just suit you. OTOH, eXT is much more a traditional software approach but its pretty damned clever and oh-so-cheap.

[Spookyrockstar]

My take is that you need to keep looking for that illusive one-size-fit-all-your-needs application. It seems to me there are still plenty of options open to you - ORION and EnergyXT are two that spring to mind.

One-size-fit-all-your-needs *is* illusive, but I'm SOOOOOO close. And you guys are helping. You really are. I'll check out Orion and EnergyXT! Thanks!