What the !!! Has anyone even seen this!!??

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
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aMUSEd wrote:No - I'd rather have one synth capable of multiple models. Only then would one have the capability to create hybrid instruments and explore new musical territory. If its not sample based then there's no reason why an instrument that includes several models such as a horns and blown instruments model, a plucked model etc would be bloated at all. I'm with Tony - we need something like an Uber VL that you can move between sounds with fluidly - not have to load a new synth to change models - that is far too limiting.
While there will be some possibilities to alter the timbre and control, the synth in its current form will focus on modeling existing instruments. I'm not saying never, but the sound of an instrument combined with an alternative controlling model just isn't as exciting as you might believe. The acoustic instruments have been refined for hundreds of years, and it becomes very apparent when you do the job I'm currently doing. So maybe in the future, but just to give you an idea, alternative patches sound much like standard patches in Physical Modelers. There's some sort of timbre, and there's some sort of behaviour, but you can tell something just isn't right.

Synthesized sounds are definitely a huge leap forward for music in general, but I'm a bit reluctant to the birth of new sounds from analysis of acoustic instruments/sounds. The sound of acoustic instruments tend to be very thin compared to just about any synthesizer, even though you get lots of emotional response from associations you make with the sound. The instruments are meant to function as a whole (in a band/orchestra) and not until brought together they give the impact of the orchestra. I'd argue that there are no exciting sounds in acoustic music, only exciting writing/orchestration. Exciting synthesized sounds tend to sound like large ensembles of acoustic instruments (rich and evolving) but such sounds also grow old quickly. Acoustic instruments that tend to dominate the orchestra in a similiar way are hard to use constructively when orchestrating, and hence they never become standard members of the orchestra because of their limited use. Good examples are the saxophones, that are great solo instruments, but tend to dominate the orchestra when used in symphonic music.

Popular sample libraries often have instruments that sound larger than the instrument ever have sounded in any real setting. This equals good sales, but the instruments won't blend, and good music coming out of it tend to be percussive/noisy in nature. One library that doesn't use that approach is VSL, but that library also gets critique all the time for sounding too thin.
/arwa02

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"I'm not saying never, but the sound of an instrument combined with an alternative controlling model just isn't as exciting as you might believe."

I beg to differ - its pretty exciting on my VL and also in the hybrid patches I've made (and others) for instruments like Modelonia, Camel CA5000 and the Hartman Neuron VS where you can explore such spaces - its also possible with Sculpture from Logic but what we are really lacking is the realism of the VL combined with the convenience and potentially increased power, realism and flexibility of software. Accurately modelling existing instrumets is a necessary starting point of course but why stop there?

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aMUSEd wrote:"I'm not saying never, but the sound of an instrument combined with an alternative controlling model just isn't as exciting as you might believe."

I beg to differ - its pretty exciting on my VL and also in the hybrid patches I've made (and others) for instruments like Modelonia, Camel CA5000 and the Hartman Neuron VS where you can explore such spaces - its also possible with Sculpture from Logic but what we are really lacking is the realism of the VL combined with the convenience and potentially increased power, realism and flexibility of software. Accurately modelling existing instrumets is a necessary starting point of course but why stop there?
You're right. I'm probably just biased towards acoustic music. Anyway, I will begin with doing what I know best, and leave the door open for such future development.
/arwa02

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any idear of a release date?

sorry if it was covered & i missed it :oops:

Subz

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There is no release date. I've read both this and Northern sounds forums. I'd say, going by the VST example MP3 and how realistic it sounds, probably end of the year. No sooner. He's refining the plugin, and he has to get the custom samples for the instruments he wants to add to the collection and I think he plans to add quite a lot going by his interest in acoustic instruments. Not to mention development and having the synth distributed either via the web or via boxed plugin or both...I'd give it a year to be honest. No I'm not kidding. Development is one thing and that is the easy part. Deployment is the real pain in the ass - it's difficult, you go through a lot of officaldom like patents and talking to lawyers and all that shit, that's just to get something released unless you do the marketing yourself and can distribute it yourself which is a feat in and of itelf.

I can honestly say, Arwa's synth is obviously here and it's here to stay. But when will we see it? Most likely not for a while yet. For the reasons I gave above.
Little Black Dog - 2008-Present

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arwa02 wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:"I'm not saying never, but the sound of an instrument combined with an alternative controlling model just isn't as exciting as you might believe."

I beg to differ - its pretty exciting on my VL and also in the hybrid patches I've made (and others) for instruments like Modelonia, Camel CA5000 and the Hartman Neuron VS where you can explore such spaces - its also possible with Sculpture from Logic but what we are really lacking is the realism of the VL combined with the convenience and potentially increased power, realism and flexibility of software. Accurately modelling existing instrumets is a necessary starting point of course but why stop there?
You're right. I'm probably just biased towards acoustic music. Anyway, I will begin with doing what I know best, and leave the door open for such future development.
That's fine - like I said this is a great start. But if you keep it all in one synth rather than splitting it into several specialised ones then you will be leaving that door open :)

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That's fine - like I said this is a great start. But if you keep it all in one synth rather than splitting it into several specialised ones then you will be leaving that door open
It's entirely up to Arwa how he designs his synth. It doesn't matter too much, if he can get all those acoustic instruments into his synth and can recreate them well then whatever else comes along is just a bonus. Acoustic instrument simulation is the most important thing right now. I agree with Arwa on this one - trying to create a new instrument based on the analysis of an existing instrument probably won't work the way we would expect. A synth based entirely on physical modelling would be capable of that such as Tassman (Tassman 5 should be out within a year or so and will obviously be better than version 4), but Arwa has stated that his synth is not based entirely on physical modelling so it is not entirely capable of generating new instruments. I guess Arwa could design the synth in such a way that new instruments could be created, but I think his goal of recreating existing acoustic instruments is a much better one right now.
Little Black Dog - 2008-Present

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fwiw, here's an example of flexible model params being found useful -
http://www.xoxos.net/pray_thee_gnomes.mp3

one of the z1 sax models with 'reed stiffness' et c. params modded for 'medieval reed' sound (instrument unknown..) a bagpipe or something..

doesn't sound like a sax thru a filter at any rate :) if it's simply a matter of providing gui access to a few internal coefficients, then please! if you're using spectral models, too much bother.. whole other thing. believe arwa said he wasn't using waveguide anyway.
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.

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By the way, arwa02, how are you going to name it?

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In case anyone was wondering what happened to this, arwa has just posted this over at Northernsounds:
It's still under production. I'm currently working on a modular system that I can expand freely into all kinds of synths, using a common graphical engine/plugin engine. Also, the synth uses a very different approach to acoustics. I don't want to promise too much, but the acoustic control and interface will at least become something out of the ordinary.

It might sound like I'm taking it too far, but the work I do now will save me a lot of work in the future if I choose to expand the synth to new instruments (that can build on an altogether different technology) or if it needs porting to new systems (64-bit processors, Windows Vista etc), since I only need to port my main engine to upgrade all synths. Also, once completed there hopefully shouldn't be any problem supporting all different platforms and also standards (DirectX, VST, AU etc). I hope to have some product out before the end of this year (probably covering one of the wind sections) and depending on the success of it, I'll expand into other synths,too.
/Yoss

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Interesting... too bad he's alone in this, so things go really slow.

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What makes it also sound very good is the £2000 reverb unit he's probably used!
But I may be wrong? It does sound very good though :D

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nice

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Are there any other examples, other than the first one that he posted?

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xoxos wrote:fwiw, here's an example of flexible model params being found useful -
http://www.xoxos.net/pray_thee_gnomes.mp3
I'm not sure about most of the sounds but the song is absolutely lovely - is this you, Rurik? :D

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