KVR Audio

jens · Post by **jens** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:47 pm

so a 'randomise' function would do it?

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:49 pm

jens wrote:So what parameters exactly is the GCO-1 missing to mimic (say) a 1176? Or does it provide all paramters but they are scaled wrongly?

Well, it needs a sub-sample fast attack. The real thing's attack is in the microseconds which makes it kind of distort audio in a weird way. The other thing you need is the transfer curve of the 1176 (which is kind of and S on it's side when in 4:1 ratio and becomes much more hard knee at 8:1, 12:1 and 20:1 ratios). At 20:1 it's mostly just a normal no-nonsense "chopper"/limiter. The problem with emulating it is the fast attack and the release.

Cheers!
bManic

jens · Post by **jens** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:50 pm

Kingston wrote:
jens wrote:
Kingston wrote:
jens wrote:I don't want the GCO-1 to sound like e.g. a 1176 - my attempt was to make it behave like one
and the difference is?
I dunno - I for one probably can't hear it and am not interested in it either...

uhh ok.

what a weird fella.

well, I asked for specific technical data and you gave me a totally unspecific and untechnical reply - a reply of which I can never check whether it is true or not so what should I do with it?

Kingston · Post by **Kingston** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:51 pm

GCO-1 is just too gentle for 1176.

but as was said before, Marquis is actually capable is somewhat similar act. Even there's it's fiddly and I for one never consciously strive for it. I've simply noticed in several occasions that "oh, well this kind of sounds like the 1176 attack!".. which is nice.

Now LA-2A.. that I wouldn't mind myself, as I haven't heard an equivalent on awful lot, but hey that's what the UAD-1 is for.

jens · Post by **jens** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:53 pm

bmanic wrote:
jens wrote:So what parameters exactly is the GCO-1 missing to mimic (say) a 1176? Or does it provide all paramters but they are scaled wrongly?
Well, it needs a sub-sample fast attack. The real thing's attack is in the microseconds which makes it kind of distort audio in a weird way. The other thing you need is the transfer curve of the 1176 (which is kind of and S on it's side when in 4:1 ratio and becomes much more hard knee at 8:1, 12:1 and 20:1 ratios). At 20:1 it's mostly just a normal no-nonsense "chopper"/limiter. The problem with emulating it is the fast attack and the release.

Cheers!
bManic

so it's not possible to mimic it at all in the digital domain because the atack
is too fast to be emulated digitally?

jens · Post by **jens** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:54 pm

b.t.w.: the GCO-1 attack goes as low as 0,1ms...

jens · Post by **jens** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:57 pm

Kingston wrote:
but as was said before, Marquis is actually capable is somewhat similar act. Even there's it's fiddly and I for one never consciously strive for it. I've simply noticed in several occasions that "oh, well this kind of sounds like the 1176 attack!".. which is nice.

is it perhaps a program-dependent attack?

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:57 pm

jens, give the Marquis a try in T3 mode and then you'll know what bManic means about FAST attacks

I'm afraid the 0.1 ms is still very smooth on the GCO compared to a 1176, however, the Marquis T3 mode is super super fast ... so much so that I never run it at low attack settings, but it sounds amazing to say the least and probably a lot closer to a 1176 than the GCO will ever sound in it's current state.

The GCO is way way to silky smooth to sound like a 1176 as mentioned

Best of luck mate
Fots

Kingston · Post by **Kingston** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:57 pm

jens wrote:b.t.w.: the GCO-1 attack goes as low as 0,1ms...

...says nothing of the actual attack behaviour ie. shape, just a number on the UI, which is absolutely crucial. This is what sets the 1176 apart from a lot of plugins. The initial attack is capable of being faster than the samplerate 44100hz, so it poses a bit of a design problem.

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:58 pm

hmm, well try this with the GCO1...

PDR set to full, attack set to minimum, mode set to classic ... that's probably the fastest you'll get the attack on the GCO1

Fots

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:58 pm

The chaps at universal audio did figure out some way of creating the 1176 without upsampling. They have a pretty interesting article about it somewhere. I'll try to look it up for you.

Cheers!
bManic

Kingston · Post by **Kingston** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:59 pm

jens wrote:is it perhaps a program-dependent attack?

No. 1176 sidechain design is as linear as they come, with none of the electronics actually producing program dependency. There's no opto components to take into account, or esoteric tube couplings, just fets and capacitors, ie. extremely straighforward.

..just like the sound in fact.

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:00 pm

bmanic wrote:The chaps at universal audio did figure out some way of creating the 1176 without upsampling. They have a pretty interesting article about it somewhere. I'll try to look it up for you.

Cheers!
bManic

On that note, you gotta give credit to Aleksey for the speed of the T3 algorithm, don't you think that would be even faster than the 1176 mate ?

No doubt that UA are awesome nonetheless though

Cheers
Fots

jens · Post by **jens** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:02 pm

soundpalace wrote:jens, give the Marquis a try in T3 mode and then you'll know what bManic means about FAST attacks

yes, will do!

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:03 pm

Here are some articles worth reading (try to disregard the obvious hyping of the UAD-1 here).

http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2003/april/index2.html

and

http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2003/may/index4.html

and

http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2003/august/index3.html

and

http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2004/february/index2.html

That should be enough for now..

Cheers!
bManic

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