VSTis as good as hardware? Similar to Access Virus Quality?

[nuffink]

While they don't tell the whole story, the MIPS (millions of instructions per second) figures are educational. I can't find the exact model of DSP563xx used in the virus ti so I'll assume that it's the most powerful:-

Motorola DSP56371 * 2 - 360 MIPS
Opteron 875 * 2 - 43,244 MIPS

The access coders have done a fine job considering but the sheer brute force of todays cpu's are orders of magnitude more powerful. Nobody uses DSP chips for power any more. Cost, heat, size are among the reasons you might go that way, but for power todays CPU's are generations ahead.

[Algorythm]

hope your remebering that the virus runs at 96khz internally and at err 0 latency

are you sure your pc can do this ???

0 latency is a myth!I don't believe that Access promote this as a specification because its totally stupid. Anyway, in my pc i run vstis and vsts with 5ms latency ..but who cares? Latency is a problem only in multichannel recording. I don't have any performing problem when playing at 8ms or 10ms either.

[Algorythm]

Virus line its a fresh marketing trick! A good software synth with many useless features like so many oscs and extremely extended polyphony blah blah blah inside a 1st quality controller box...nothing new, lies, hidden specs, and all that crap.
A software synth is much more clear in its promotion, much more cheaper, it can have the same quality (as a pro instrument), and i don't mean the same character (i don't care about Virus or Nord Lead character), neither the same amount of useless features..I mean QUALITY.I have a friend who bought a Virus and he always says about the quality of the effects and the filter..bullshit..i've heard it many many times.It has quality but not unbeaten quality (especially by other software synths which run in a modern pc).

[vvanrij]

in VAZ modular, for a full stereo setup, do you have to make the whole synth twice and edit all the parameters for the channels seperate

[Algorythm]

in VAZ modular, for a full stereo setup, do you have to make the whole synth twice and edit all the parameters for the channels seperate

I thought it was in stereo physically..can you explain what do you mean?

[bmanic]

Developers, STOP removing the NOISE from oscillators, filters and other circuits, it's one of THE biggest things in old analogue synths.

It's actually the other way around and the reason it's often not seen (the uncontrollable noise mod type things): the noise has to be *added* there, since it isn't a byproduct of any of the bread and butter algorithms we're used to... this in comparison to the noisy and somewhat unstable circuits we are also used to. It just has to be added in.

Yes, indeed. That's what I actually meant. Developers should emulate the noise too instead of marketing it as a bad thing.

Cheers for the correction!
bManic

[vvanrij]

I try panning 1 osc full left, and 1 full right with the panning, but as soon it goes into filters and amps and effects, it comes out dual mono!

[bmanic]

It was not a competition of "who sounds phattest" but "who gets closest to the original".

Hmmm, I didn't know it was a competition.

Of course! Everything is always a competition.. mainly with one self.

Seriously, your attempt was sounding VERY GOOD but it didn't sound the same. I actually thought yours sounded kind of better (more meat to your sound) but it didn't sound like the virus example.

The key to the virus example, like tony already said much earlier, is the shape of the envelope (the attack is NOT linear in my opinion) and the phaser. The reverb used plays a big role too but even without a reverb it is possible to get relatively near to the example.

I promised to take a shot at this at some point but right now I'm too damn lazy. Could be it's the smoke from the russian forest fires that makes my brain hurt (or then I'm just stressed out in general!).

By the way, gsoto, you definately seem to have a talent for preset design so keep going at it! What you've done with xhip is nothing short of amazing!

Cheers!
bManic

[tony tony chopper]

Yes, indeed. That's what I actually meant. Developers should emulate the noise too instead of marketing it as a bad thing

That Roland thing mp3 demo sounds like pure crap to my ears, and totally what I would NOT want to emulate (if I ever wanted to emulate anything).

But maybe it's just me. I know I'd prefer the feel of an original arcade game & its fuzzy monitor over a MAME emulation running on a crap LCD & played through keyboard. Still, I can understand the new generation doesn't give a shit for old arcade games and that today's games are just better. I mean: you can probably like that demo clip if you've actually owned that piece of.. hardware. Personally I wouldn't tell the diff between that & a gameboy.

[vvanrij]

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 751E5EFB32

1. What synth is this

2. Try to make this with a Virus

[bmanic]

That Roland thing mp3 demo sounds like pure crap to my ears, and totally what I would NOT want to emulate (if I ever wanted to emulate anything).

But maybe it's just me. I know I'd prefer the feel of an original arcade game & its fuzzy monitor over a MAME emulation running on a crap LCD & played through keyboard. Still, I can understand the new generation doesn't give a shit for old arcade games and that today's games are just better. I mean: you can probably like that demo clip if you've actually owned that piece of.. hardware. Personally I wouldn't tell the diff between that & a gameboy.

You are quite right. Emotions and nostalgia do play a big part here. Hmm.. good food for thought. However, why is it that so many professional synth programmers tend to add a little pink or white noise to their patches?

I think there is something in the human brain that doesn't like "constant/sterile" things. It likes movement, constant subtle movement. We had an interesting discussion about this at the university where we compared the eye-brain connection and how the brain loses complete focus on a moving dot if it moves at a constant speed (the brain will focus on what is in the background and ignore the dot) but will notice the dot if it slightly modulates it's speed at random values.

Anyways, very good point tony.

Cheers!
bManic

[tony tony chopper]

However, why is it that so many professional synth programmers tend to add a little pink or white noise to their patches?

I only sometimes (rarely) do this on the attack, to get brightness.

It likes movement, constant subtle movement.

very true but there are much better ways to do that: running osc, LFO's on filters, little flanging, etc.

Just the running osc changes a lot: a synth that makes each note sound exactly the same isn't worth much more than a sampler.

[tony tony chopper]

Btw, using the arcade game analogy again: ever realized how crap the graphics of some arcade games were in MAME?
CRT's with very apparent scanlines & blurriness were making them look much nicer. Most of the graphics weren't even antialiased.

[aciddose]

doesnt everyone use noise? if i ever get my hands on an analog without the ability to mix white noise with the oscillator, it gets a mod so fast you wouldnt believe. noise is really important to get those rad pulse bass stabs. if only i had a 4013 laying around to replace the sub osc in this synth i'd show you...

concerning the 'super saw' stuff with however many thousands of oscillators, that isnt so impressive. there are a ton of methods to do things tricky/fast and get results you wouldnt tell the difference with.

here is a good example:

xhip can do 32 saws per voice, with 64 voices (2048 oscillators) fairly easy on a fast cpu. it does 256 voices just fine on my p3 550. i'm talking about real saws here, no tricks involved. if i wanted to do tricks... the thought of how many saws i could conjure is frightening indeed.

think about what a fairly average pc can do. think about a 640x480 graphics rendering program, maybe 3d graphics, whatever. assuming you only need to do an add per pixel, you're doing 18432000 adds per second (at 60 fps.)

a pc can do this with absolutely no problem! infact, you can do a whole load more than just an add per pixel at that rate. considering rendering naive saws and squares before a decimation stage takes pretty much just one or two adds per, i wonder how many you could do on a pc that way, hm?

[VladimirDimitrievich]

I don't remember exactly, but I think the JP-8000 and JP-8080 didn't have real 7 oscillators for the SuperSaw, but instead one saw going through a comb filter or something weird like that. Can anybody explain?