dblue Glitch Shuffler is hard to work with

[fgimian]

Guys, I was hoping to get some tips...

Basically, all effects in glitch except..

R - Random
4 - Shuffler

are predictable, i.e. if you render the song 20 times, you'll get the same output.

It's understandable that R is completely random ... hence the name, but I am finding the shuffler hard to work with because every time I play back my song, it sounds different, and I don't believe there is a way to control this.

Can you guys please share any tips or ideas you have on how to use shuffler so that the output is predictable ?

Essentially, sometimes I like what I hear and sometimes I don't and getting the final mixdown right is becoming somewhat of a difficult task since one part of the song will sound good and another will sound incorrect.

Huge thanks in advance for your help
Fots

[ghost863boy]

Just render the part that you like as an audio file and then use that as a loop.

(I can't answer your question but that is a workaround)

[.jon]

I'm afraid there's no way to make it predictable, even setting the max & min steps to the same amount and zeroing the repeat controls give random results.

[fgimian]

hey guys, thanks for the quick response

ghost863boy: yep this is what I was thinking, although it would be pretty annoying to do

.jon: I noticed this too, I tried setting min and max to the same and limiting the range of slices that can be used but still doesn't seem to be predictable.

It would be cool if you could somehow choose which order these slices were placed back wouldn't it ?

Fots

[liars&ashes]

----Eh, it's a "glitch" plug man, not supposed to be perfect, hell it being as programmable as it is is almost blasphemy from a hardKore glitch standpoint Maybe render yer audio twice or three times and pick yer favorite of them. *shrug*

Jeff

[dblue]

Basically, all effects in glitch except..
R - Random
4 - Shuffler
are predictable, i.e. if you render the song 20 times, you'll get the same output.

Technically speaking, every random element of the plugin *should* be predictable. I tried to set it up that way specifically so that Glitch wouldn't be just another unpredictable (and therefore unusable - for me at least) FSU plugin. The random functions are seeded with a value which is based on current position within your song, so the results you get at 00:37, 01:05, etc. into your song should always be the same. Even when using nothing but random effects, Glitch should still pick the same sequence of random effects each time the track is rendered. The same applies to the shuffler effect.

In practise I've noticed that this is very dependant on the host you use, as they all seem to send timing information to the plugin with varying degrees of accuracy. Audio buffer size may also have something to do with it, I'm not sure. Using Renoise, which is my preferred host, I've been able to get shuffler to do exactly the same thing almost every time it's rendered. Occasionally it will vary maybe 1 or 2 steps in the beginning then the rest will be the same. I'm able to get the random effect selector to be identical pretty much every single time as well. The results I got from other hosts were usually not as accurate, unfortunately.

I've refined the functions a little bit over the last few versions, and if you download v1.3.03 again you may see an improvement because I tweaked the random stuff a little bit more, but ultimately I think they're about as good as they're gonna get for this particular edition of the plugin. I will certainly be approaching things from a slightly different perspective in the next edition of the plugin, implementing a greater range of timing options and things like that.

[whyterabbyt]

If the random seed is only calculated once, what about a 'last seed/new seed' toggle ?

[fgimian]

Basically, all effects in glitch except..
R - Random
4 - Shuffler
are predictable, i.e. if you render the song 20 times, you'll get the same output.

Technically speaking, every random element of the plugin *should* be predictable. I tried to set it up that way specifically so that Glitch wouldn't be just another unpredictable (and therefore unusable - for me at least) FSU plugin. The random functions are seeded with a value which is based on current position within your song, so the results you get at 00:37, 01:05, etc. into your song should always be the same. Even when using nothing but random effects, Glitch should still pick the same sequence of random effects each time the track is rendered. The same applies to the shuffler effect.

In practise I've noticed that this is very dependant on the host you use, as they all seem to send timing information to the plugin with varying degrees of accuracy. Audio buffer size may also have something to do with it, I'm not sure. Using Renoise, which is my preferred host, I've been able to get shuffler to do exactly the same thing almost every time it's rendered. Occasionally it will vary maybe 1 or 2 steps in the beginning then the rest will be the same. I'm able to get the random effect selector to be identical pretty much every single time as well. The results I got from other hosts were usually not as accurate, unfortunately.

I've refined the functions a little bit over the last few versions, and if you download v1.3.03 again you may see an improvement because I tweaked the random stuff a little bit more, but ultimately I think they're about as good as they're gonna get for this particular edition of the plugin. I will certainly be approaching things from a slightly different perspective in the next edition of the plugin, implementing a greater range of timing options and things like that.

Awesome, huge thanks, I'll try it out soon and report back

Fots

[fgimian]

Quite strange, it still is very random every time I play back, the same part gets played different every time. Must be a Cubase thing, I'll play with it more tomorrow anyways.

Any further ideas ? Would be happy to try anything suggested

Fots

[R.A.W.]

though i love glitch i recommend another plug for slicing beats with full control (and very visual). check out LiveSlice, it works as VSTi and FX.
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1952.html

[dblue]

though i love glitch i recommend another plug for slicing beats with full control

I would have to agree with R.A.W. on this one. If this particular effect is what you're looking for and you need a greater degree of control, Glitch's shuffler will probably never be good enough. A dedicated tool such as LiveSlice will offer you a lot more options and creative freedom. On the other hand, Glitch's shuffler is handy if you want to make your music sound like a CD that's been ravaged by an axle grinder.

[fgimian]

thanks guys !

Fots