Apology to Torben - Kjaerhus

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This is quite an interesting thread imho. But a few simple points to make:

1.) I love Kjaerhus effects, and in addition to the Classics, I bought GCO-1, GEQ-7 and GMO-1 so far.

2.) Kjaerhus effects are very good... but not perfect. Adding editable numeric values to properties would be good; Torben has repeatedly promised to do that. Adding draggable nodes in GEQ-7 (as already implemented in GAC-1) would also be good, and was also promised quite some time ago.

3.) Constructive criticism is valid and hopefully Torben will find it useful, rather than responding by being unduly defensive. He has sometimes got quite upset on this forum lately.

4.) GAG seems confusing - there do seem to be mixed opinions of it.

5.) Although I don't always appreciate the more technical points made in these debates, I learn a lot from reading and trying to understand both sides of a discussion.

6.) Kjaerhus and Voxengo do appear to have such a following here that even constructive criticism of their products is often not tollerated by some.

7.) I don't just want to know that a product is "awesome/fabulous/great" - I want to know WHY and HOW it is better than the competition, and what possible drawbacks I should be aware of when buying. That is why forum threads have such potential to be informative and helpful.

9.) Nobody should be attacked for posting their views. This is an independant forum where free speech is not only allowed, but encouraged. Such discussions only rarely become personal, and often that happens because one party is unduly defensive, and percieves they are under attack when in fact they are not.

10.) In the end as Torben says, if you like his stuff buy it, if not then don't. I REALLY like the Kjaerhus products I have bought so far, wasn't particularly impressed by the demos of the others, and there is one I do like and am considering buying sometime. :shrug:

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headquest wrote:This is quite an interesting thread imho. But a few simple points to make:

1.) I love Kjaerhus effects, and in addition to the Classics, I bought GCO-1, GEQ-7 and GMO-1 so far.

2.) Kjaerhus effects are very good... but not perfect. Adding editable numeric values to properties would be good; Torben has repeatedly promised to do that. Adding draggable nodes in GEQ-7 (as already implemented in GAC-1) would also be good, and was also promised quite some time ago.

3.) Constructive criticism is valid and hopefully Torben will find it useful, rather than responding by being unduly defensive. He has sometimes got quite upset on this forum lately.

4.) GAG seems confusing - there do seem to be mixed opinions of it.

5.) Although I don't always appreciate the more technical points made in these debates, I learn a lot from reading and trying to understand both sides of a discussion.

6.) Kjaerhus and Voxengo do appear to have such a following here that even constructive criticism of their products is often not tollerated by some.

7.) I don't just want to know that a product is "awesome/fabulous/great" - I want to know WHY and HOW it is better than the competition, and what possible drawbacks I should be aware of when buying. That is why forum threads have such potential to be informative and helpful.

9.) Nobody should be attacked for posting their views. This is an independant forum where free speech is not only allowed, but encouraged. Such discussions only rarely become personal, and often that happens because one party is unduly defensive, and percieves they are under attack when in fact they are not.

10.) In the end as Torben says, if you like his stuff buy it, if not then don't. I REALLY like the Kjaerhus products I have bought so far, wasn't particularly impressed by the demos of the others, and there is one I do like and am considering buying sometime. :shrug:
this is the smartest, best argumented thing anyone has said thruout this entire flipping thread.

+1
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+2

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oh hell, make it a hat trick....
+3
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I especially agree with 3 and 9.

+4
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Kiwburger makes two threads about Kjaerhus. One where he complains because he can not update with a demo and another where he refers to our products as "bloody Kjaerhus stuff". He also states that "these products are thrown together cheaply by somebody who no longer values loyal customers".

Is that constructive criticism? Not in my book!

People who know me also know I like to listen to people's critiques, good or bad as long as it is constructive. But the criticism coming from Kiwburger the last days has not been constructive at all. I even regret that I answered his threads because all he did was throwing more dirt at me.

I now understand why other vendors who came on this board in the past have left it again; and I am strongly considering this right now.

It is sad because if I look rationally on it, it is only a handful of people making all the noise, and another handful of people who like to throw gasoline for the fun of it.

Torben

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msn messenger is my email as well.

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Torben wrote:Kiwburger makes two threads about Kjaerhus. One where he complains because he can not update with a demo and another where he refers to our products as "bloody Kjaerhus stuff". He also states that "these products are thrown together cheaply by somebody who no longer values loyal customers".

Is that constructive criticism? Not in my book!

People who know me also know I like to listen to people's critiques, good or bad as long as it is constructive. But the criticism coming from Kiwburger the last days has not been constructive at all. I even regret that I answered his threads because all he did was throwing more dirt at me.

I now understand why other vendors who came on this board in the past have left it again; and I am strongly considering this right now.

It is sad because if I look rationally on it, it is only a handful of people making all the noise, and another handful of people who like to throw gasoline for the fun of it.

Torben
BTW, thanks for all, T. NB

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But the criticism coming from Kiwburger the last days has not been constructive at all.
But now you attack a single person/customer while being
a company and that is not good.

If you come on this board as a person then you have
to state that but if you represent your company
then you have to adapt this slightly lobotomized
calm where no emotions should show where you only
direct the un-happy customer to support via email
and if this person would like to vent his personal
views on the internet it should not cause the company
to get into that discussion.

Personal/business will never blend together smoothly...

//Daniel :)

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ddummer wrote:
But the criticism coming from Kiwburger the last days has not been constructive at all.
But now you attack a single person/customer while being
a company and that is not good.
Sorry dude. What Torben said is NOT an attack. It's an observation. An attack would be like stating that xxx is an asshole / cannot play decent music / etc. And I'm NOT a Kjaerhus-fanboy (I even sold one of my Kjaerhus licenses in the past ;)). But the way kiwiburger acts the last few days would not be acceptable in real life, so it's not acceptable here too.

kiwiburger is getting far too much attention already.

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ddummer wrote:
But the criticism coming from Kiwburger the last days has not been constructive at all.
But now you attack a single person/customer while being
a company and that is not good.

If you come on this board as a person then you have
to state that but if you represent your company
then you have to adapt this slightly lobotomized
calm where no emotions should show where you only
direct the un-happy customer to support via email
and if this person would like to vent his personal
views on the internet it should not cause the company
to get into that discussion.

Personal/business will never blend together smoothly...

//Daniel :)
I am refering to headquests point 3 which I belive has my name on it.

I am trying to show people that there is more to this thread than can be read here an that prople should read the two other threads by kiwburger to fully understand by comments used by Kiwburger in the beginning of this thread.

Torben

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M'Snah wrote:But the way kiwiburger acts the last few days would not be acceptable in real life, so it's not acceptable here too.
wow. wish this rule were applied to many other situations here.
M'Snah wrote:
kiwiburger is getting far too much attention already.
agreed.

but still, points 3 and 9 i still agree with.
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msn messenger is my email as well.

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Jason Brian Merrill wrote:
M'Snah wrote:But the way kiwiburger acts the last few days would not be acceptable in real life, so it's not acceptable here too.
wow. wish this rule were applied to many other situations here.
M'Snah wrote:
kiwiburger is getting far too much attention already.
agreed.

but still, points 3 and 9 i still agree with.
And where did I do 3 and 9?

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YOU didnt do 9 -- this is exactly what i mean about you being defensive -- 9 had nothing to do with you but other people. so, you just proved 3. :)
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msn messenger is my email as well.

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I am trying to show people
Again are we talking to Torben or the company?

//Daniel :)

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