Apology to Torben - Kjaerhus

[IIRs]

Really, I too would like to know just one thing, not ONE PLUG, but one thing, that they can do that VST can't do.

Lock you to a specific OS..?

[koolkeys]

Oh, yeah, forgot about that one.

[pdxindy]

there is no reason not to support AU plugs.

Is there any reason to support them? What do AU plugs do that VSTs don't?

There are some AU only plugs, but I think Mackie is making a good choice not to spend development time adding AU support when there are other things that are needed more. Maybe for Tracktion 5. I'd just rather they not give some lame reason like cross platform compatibility when at least 50% of the vst's are PC only

Now if AU were an open standard, I would advocate for it, but Steinberg or Apple doesn't matter. Either way they are thinking more about dollars than the needs of audio people

[pdxindy]

I don't think there even needs to be other formats besides VST. They are a pain in the rear to devs anyways from what I've heard. Why can't they just agree on a standard, the one that does more then any other, VST?

Really, I too would like to know just one thing, not ONE PLUG, but one thing, that they can do that VST can't do.

I don't mean to be defensive, but it's Tuesday night, when I work my one night a week at my second job, which is the one I hate. And I get my revenge here tonight!

Brent

One open standard format would be good. VST is in the hands of one company that does not listen to what users want. Like being able to make midi vst plugs that don't break the standard!

[koolkeys]

I agree that VST could be refined. But the truth that still remains is that VST is king, and everything else is just a smaller alternative.

If only plugin utopia could be found.

Brent

[Jason Brian Merrill]

it SHOULD only be VST.

but unfortunately, its not the only format, still.

[koolkeys]

I don't think it's going to change either.

But anyways, back to the off topic subject at hand. Not EVERY host includes it, nor do they need to. It's not bad to have it, but it's not all bad to not have it, especially when there is a VERY simple wrapper available.

I'm still waiting for the super host. Everything you need, right out of the box. Just dreaming though.

Brent

[pdxindy]

I agree that VST could be refined. But the truth that still remains is that VST is king, and everything else is just a smaller alternative.

If only plugin utopia could be found.

Brent

I've noticed one difference in Live between AU and VST. The AU plugs when you save a preset, it can be accessed right from the Live browser. The plug-in acts like a directory and click the arrow and you see the presets you have saved. Zebra2 you can access all factory presets, but not with other synths I have. For this reason, I use the AU's not VST's because it is more convenient to drag in the preset and have an instance of the synth with that preset already selected.

I do not know if this is Live only, but it seems Live is taking advantage of something in the AU format to do this. Not a big thing, but nice.

[Zaphod (giancarlo)]

Ok you are annoyed, and you have rights of being annoyed, I'm surprised you use muting here:
I haven't tried the mute feature, but how can you understand this topic muting the author? It is really useful muting someone when you see his words inside quotes?

Who are you, and how come your only addition to this thread is a reaction to my post?? Or are you another kiwiburger who by accident signed in with the wrong account?

help me, I don't understand
if A writes begins 3 threads against B and B, C, D, E, F .. Y are against him and Z write 2 posts vs E in your logic
Z == A ?!?
are you joking?!?

I could use a similar logic too.
If E attacks Z saying he could be A and ONLY E says this thing in MY logic E could be B

[headquest]

I use DX plugins in Tracktion. Just Google FFx4. It'a a free wrapper you can use. It has a bigger brother also, the FFx16, but it's not free. The difference is how many effects you can stick in each instance. Kinda like an effects rack(actually, EXACTLY like that) that loads DX plugins and can be run as VST.

Brent

I'm so pleased that you pointed me towards this little gem in a thread last month Brent - THANKS! I have been using the Sonitus fx:Suite (from Sonar 5) in both Ableton Live and Tracktion ever since. Although you cannot automate stuff (except wet/dry) most of those effects only require a simple set up anyway.

Cheers

[headquest]

Heck, Sonar still doesn't directly load VST plugins IIRC.

Brent

another reason i dont like Sonar -- hopefully this will change in version 6. Then it may be worth checking out.

I don't think the problem is that Sonar internally wraps VSTs - that is mostly transparent and works for all my VSTs (although I sympathise with those people who have the few VSTs that cause problems, of course).

I think the much worse problem is that most of the lovely plugins bundled with Sonar 5 come in DX format only. Perfect Space, Pentagon I and sfz are the only ones where there are VST 'dlls included. So they can also be used in ACID, FL, etc... but can't be used in Live, Traction, etc.

The thing is though, it seems in Sonar 3 when they first added the Sonitus Suite, they left in the VST versions (or at least some of them). Realising their "mistake" they subsequently went to deliberate efforts to remove the VST .dlls from more recent versions, and sell them seperately for £199 . A fair price if you buy them standalone, okay, but as a Sonar customer I wrote to them asking if there is a discount of any kind as I already bought the DX versions with Sonar. And they ignored the mail I sent them.

Most of us want a setup where everything works together, and when it is so easy for Cakewalk to supply the VST dll's where they do exist (e.g. Sonitus) is seems mean-spirited of them to deliberately remove them. It's possible to "go off" a developer

A regular complaint people level at Ableton Live is that its instruments - Operator, Sampler, etc - can only be used in Live itself. I'm here to tell you that's nonsense - all of the Live 6 instruments can be used and sequenced directly from within Sonar 5 via rewire. But almost NONE of Sonar's instruments can be used within Live. So much for "open standard plugins"....

[Kiwburger]

Thanks for all the bumps. I admit I can be a drama queen, but I was basically responding to the "gasoline" throwers.

I said some things in haste about Kjaerhus products, which wasn't smart - but I actually got the answers I needed fairly quickly, and the rest has just been a circus at Torben's expense. Fueled by Torben himself, among others.

Let me spell this out: developers who make promises that they fail to deliver on in a reasonable amount of time lose respect from their customers. At no point has Torben admitted his failure to deliver on promises repeatedly made in public. A simple "sorry, I haven't had time" or "sorry, I promised that by mistake and it's not going to happen" would be sufficient. Lesson learned. No harm done. Can I mention again how impressed I am with the plugins at www.sonicflavours.com I recommend y'all check them out, especially any developers, to see how easy the GUI's work, and how good they sound with very little CPU. Nothing else to see here folks, move along ...

[whyterabbyt]

A regular complaint people level at Ableton Live is that its instruments - Operator, Sampler, etc - can only be used in Live itself. I'm here to tell you that's nonsense - all of the Live 6 instruments can be used and sequenced directly from within Sonar 5 via rewire. But almost NONE of Sonar's instruments can be used within Live. So much for "open standard plugins"....

Waitaminute. If you can use the Live instruments from Sonar via Rewire, why cant you use the Sonar instruments in Live via ReWire?

BTW, are Sonar DXi plugins really restricted to Sonar, or just to hosts capable of doing DXi...?

[JoeSchmoe]

Can I mention again how impressed I am with the plugins at www.sonicflavours.com I recommend y'all check them out, especially any developers, to see how easy the GUI's work, and how good they sound with very little CPU.

Yes you can mention them AGAIN, it only makes it look more and more like you have an agenda.

[headquest]

Waitaminute. If you can use the Live instruments from Sonar via Rewire, why cant you use the Sonar instruments in Live via ReWire?

Because Sonar is a Rewire host only, while Live can function as either host or slave. So...

With Sonar as host you can rewire in Live as slave and sequence Live's instruments directly from within Sonar. The Sonar 5.2 and Live 6 updates have both improved this functionality no end, by the way.

But with Live as host, you can't rewire Sonar in as slave in order to access its instruments. If Sonar was given rewire slave ability that would be one way to solve the problem, but I really don't see that happenning.

BTW, are Sonar DXi plugins really restricted to Sonar, or just to hosts capable of doing DXi...?

The latter - so *most* of them can be accessed within, for example, FL Studio. Exceptions are GrooveStation, the Lexicon reverb and V-Vocal, all of which are fair enough as they were developed specifically for Sonar/Cakewalk anyway. I think the issue I am refering to is when a plug exists in VST/DX formats, Cakewalk buy it up, bundle the DX version only, and then try to sell the VST version at a premium rate. It seems out of character for Cakewalk to do this, as they are generally a very generous and helpful developer.

The same situation is not unique to Sonar either. IIRC, the many VST plugs that bundled with the T2 box were deliberately disabled for use in other hosts.

None of that helps customers/the user though - I think we wold all like to buy stuff that is compatible with our whole setup as much as possible.