Waves Doubler - alternatives??

[bduffy]

Doubler is not to produce lame, fake harmonies, right? Just to detune a few cents for a subliminal doubling/thickening?

That's right. You can probably make it sound weird if you want, though.

[enjneer]

Doubler is not to produce lame, fake harmonies, right? Just to detune a few cents for a subliminal doubling/thickening?

Doubler is not sold as one of those "choir in a box"-type plugs. It generally targets the thickening sound of such classics as the Eventide and, especially, I think, the classic AMS Digital Delay Line outboard gear.

Having said that, the Doubler can do some whacky harmony stuff. Each delay can be pitched over a two-octave range and modulation can be added from subtle to insane-sounding.
I think that most other members have it correct - any combination of pitch, delay and EQ can be manipulated to recreate this thickening effect.

I've had great results using various delays and pitch plugins together. As long you have a single hard panned stereo delay (with control over L & R independently), no feedback, and the ability to pitch one delay down 1% and the other up 1% - you'll get the same general effect.

BTW: I've had the pleasure/frustration of using an AMS DDL and I can say one thing for sure: there has never been a plugin that comes close to this hardware unit from the early 80s. It is "that vocal sound." Problem is, even when they are properly maintained, they just stop working at at times. And good luck getting your hands on an old Eventide. So for the rest of us, it's plugins!

[bduffy]

So far I've been messing around with:

• Discord 2 - Very nice, you can do great doubling with this; I could get it pretty close to Waves. I couldn't find a way to get fine control over all the parameters or stop it from sounding slapback-y in mono.
• PITCHSLAP - Starting from scratch, you get a decent stereo effect, but there isn't much fine control over it, obviously designed for radical effects. Cool plug, though!
• StereoFaker - Wow! Surprise. Not bad at all! You can get a good doubling effect that holds up reasonably well in mono.
• Moneo - Not the right plugin.
• ParadigmShifter3 - Not right at all. Again, cool plugin!
• SpatPitch16 - I totally do not get this guy's plugins...sounded neat, but chaotic. A little buggy.
• Stereoizer Pro - Very good! Where's this been hiding? That MB guy deserves more respect. Nice doubler, sounded a little phasier in mono than the Waves one.
• mda stereo - sounds amazing. A couple more features and a GUI, and this could easily be your replacement, IMHO.

So maybe give the useful ones there a try, Jeff. I'm trying to sic my brother on this, he's the audio engineer; I don't think I'm hardcore enough to get all the parameters right. But there are some promising plugins out there.

[Killvehicle]

Well here is another fan of Waves Doubler. And considering the original poster Jeffsanders has 'heavy acoustic' in his sig, I would say than this plug is great for acoustic guitar tracks. Personally I use it extensively for that, but if there is another alternative as quick and easy I havent seen it either..

[Killvehicle]

well bduffy beat me,, I'll have to finally get around to Downloading the MDA stuff, I guess I just figured it had been outdated by now.

[Jason Brian Merrill]

What's "DuoX"? Is that the plugin that MidiWorks never put out?

no, he put it out, its 12 bucks and it rocks, imo

theres alot of customization, but the GUI isnt exactly like doublers.

[bduffy]

well bduffy beat me,, I'll have to finally get around to Downloading the MDA stuff, I guess I just figured it had been outdated by now.

There are and they aren't; they're top-quality, a handful of them I use quite often. They just never got skinned, alas. They shouldn't be forgotten, that's for sure.

[bduffy]

What's "DuoX"? Is that the plugin that MidiWorks never put out?

no, he put it out, its 12 bucks and it rocks, imo

theres alot of customization, but the GUI isnt exactly like doublers.

Funny, I don't see it anywhere. I remember he was recommending them to me for something I was trying to do, but I recall they weren't on the market.

[highkoo]

what about fusspilz 'chareisis', or whatever its called?

i havent used doubler, but sounds something like what chareisis does, although, i admit, both seem kinda 'fuzzy' on what they do.

i think chareisis is genious shit.... and will cost you exactly nothing!

[enjneer]

So far I've been messing around with:

• Discord 2 - Very nice, you can do great doubling with this; I could get it pretty close to Waves. I couldn't find a way to get fine control over all the parameters or stop it from sounding slapback-y in mono.
• mda stereo - sounds amazing. A couple more features and a GUI, and this could easily be your replacement, IMHO.

So maybe give the useful ones there a try, Jeff. I'm trying to sic my brother on this, he's the audio engineer; I don't think I'm hardcore enough to get all the parameters right. But there are some promising plugins out there.

Here's the brother!

I got to say I did not like the mda Stereo on vocals. I found it phase-y as hell. Also, I noticed it didn't sound that wide. Sure enough, in Wavelab, the stereo analyzer showed that the signal remained mono! I might have oevrlooked something...
I did love that Discord 2, though! - bduffy, did you try killing the feedback? I set it to 0% feedback, L delay pitched down 0.0012 and right delay poitched up 0.0012. Sounded great.
Surprisingly, I got a really interesting result from running both the mda Stereo and Discord together! It turned my single rapper's voice into a whole posse!

The possibilities are endless here. As I said above, any combo of delay and pitch can get you amazing results.
This pitched delay thing is one of the big "secrets" of modern pop mixing. There's hardly a record on the radio in which this trick has not been employed. I used to get compliments on my drums, my guitars, my use of fx but not usually my vocal tone until I was lucky enough to work in a studio with an old AMS DDL and I really started mastering the use of pitched stereo delays. Now, clients hire me to mix their vocals for them because they can't get "that sound" at home.
Trust me, it is a great topic for us to be spending our valuable time on.

[bduffy]

Well, crap: there ya go!

I think I was using more drastic pitches on Discord. I'll try it again.

[Jason Brian Merrill]

http://www.soundspectral.com/vocal.htm

downloads suspended atm... i could upload a demo copy for you, if midiworks allows it....

[shamann]

Anyone interested in posting a dry clip and then a clip of it through Waves Doubler (and tell us the setting used)?

I have several pitch shifting things about, but I've never heard Doubler. A clip would be useful, since I could try to match it with the stuff I have.

[bduffy]

http://www.soundspectral.com/vocal.htm

downloads suspended atm... i could upload a demo copy for you, if midiworks allows it....

Yeah, if he allows it, sure. What a strange marketing policy he has; he put out stuff that can compete with Antares Avox at a fraction of the cost, and he just hides them...

Anyone interested in posting a dry clip and then a clip of it through Waves Doubler (and tell us the setting used)?

I have several pitch shifting things about, but I've never heard Doubler. A clip would be useful, since I could try to match it with the stuff I have.

I'll post something momentarily.

[bduffy]

Acoustic-Dry

Acoustic-Waves