ClassicVerb vs CSR

[OMU]

Hi,
I'm about to have a PowerCore soon and I'm wondering if anyone had the chance to compare the ClassicVerb included with the PoCo with CSR from IK.
I'm very interested about this subject as I already tried CSR and I was enough impressed to buy it, but as I'm buying the PoCo I'm wondering if they are not somehow similar sounding.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks.

[sounddesigner]

I own CSR but have'nt tried the poco reverbs, i heard they are great but i think CSR has the Algorithmic end covered well, i'd first look for a dynamite convolution reverb like wizooverb 2 wich i find compliments CSR well. Going this route you'll have different bases covered and it won't possibly be redundant in appearance, Not saying that if your not totally satisfied with one algorithmic verb you should'nt buy another, i'm just saying i'd go convo first then assess where i'm at and want to be.

Download wizooverb demo or listen to clips here- http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/W ... -main.html

P.S. Wizooverb 2 is currently on sale for $99 and gigapulse for $79 i think.

[hifiboom]

I do not own the Powercore, but I'm sure Classic Verb is a good sounding one...

There is a german review (www.amazona.de), overall its saying the CSR is slightly better sounding than the ClassicVerb....

The CSR also is much more flexible than the Classic Verb and you get 4 algos, not only one....
You cannot do inverse with ClassicVerb

On the other hand, if you buy a Powercore, you will be able to buy the famous VSS,NonLin, etc... algorithms, which may be even better.... I've no idea, because I don't own a Powercore...

But from the samples I have heard of the Powercore ClassicVerb, I would say CSR is more flexible and also better sounding....

For higher end PowerCore Reverb I would say the TC6000 reverbs are also very very good and perhaps better than the CSR....
but you have to be careful, they adress different kinds of soundcharacter:

CSR is modeled after famous Lexicons, and they alsways sounded different to the TC units...
With all those higher-end reverbs, it's always a matter of taste

But you will have to invest much more money...
Powercore+Plugins >>>> CSR

If you want a nice sounding, flexible reverb with the best bang for buck, you cannot go wrong with CSR.

[OMU]

Thanks for the replies.
I already have SpaceDesigner, so the convolution part is covered, thanks.
I'm very interested for oppinions from people who used them both.
Beside that I don't like W2. The algo part from it sounds weak to me.

[akisd28]

The CSR also is much more flexible than the Classic Verb and you get 4 algos, not only one....

Actually, you get 16 different algorithms with ClassicVerb.

On the other hand, if you buy a Powercore, you will be able to buy the famous VSS,NonLin, etc... algorithms, which may be even better.... I've no idea, because I don't own a Powercore...

I have all 3 S6000 reverbs for PoCo (VSS3, DVR2, NonLin2) and they are all fantastic; however, I still reach for ClassicVerb (and Princeton Digital 2016 Stereo Room/Plate, UAD Plate 140).

For higher end PowerCore Reverb I would say the TC6000 reverbs are also very very good and perhaps better than the CSR....
but you have to be careful, they adress different kinds of soundcharacter:

CSR is modeled after famous Lexicons, and they alsways sounded different to the TC units...
With all those higher-end reverbs, it's always a matter of taste

True; keep in mind, though, that ClassicVerb is definitely Lexicon-ish. The first time I put it on, I just got immediately reminded of Lexicon 480L. It's TC's effort to offer the Lexicon sound - totally different from the TC sound, indeed.

But you will have to invest much more money...
Powercore+Plugins >>>> CSR

True...

[hifiboom]

Hi akis,

you are right, the Classicverb features 16 types, which sounds like very much.

The 16 algos on the Classic Verb describe different room/hall characteristics...
I'm not sure if these are true different algos...
The ClassicVerb features no size, shape, diffusion, and all the other paramters... maybe the 16 algo does not mean, totally different calculations in behind, but more some predefind ER Size and Reverb size and buildup....

Or do you really find some classic Lexicon reverb algos in that list?

Seriously, I think the ClassicVerb is a one algo reverb with different pre-selected size/room shaping settings...


With CSR even only one algo has up to 40 parameters to shape the sound the way you like it...
so thi is "more flexibility" you get with CSR.
You can shape your own room sizes.

[akisd28]

ClassicVerb certainly offers less parameters than CSR does. The 16 different types it offers are:

Classic Hall
Vocal Studio
Vocal Room
Vocal Hall
Drum Box
Drum Room
Cathedral
Ambience
Live Reverb
Spring
Plate I
Plate II
Club
Living Room
Concert Hall
FX Sauce

So, it's mostly about rooms and halls, but the plate and spring ones offer some variety. It does have a characteristic sound no matter what type you use, but it is suitable for a lot of situations.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean to say it's better than CSR or anything, especially since I have avoided trying CSR till now ('cause I'm afraid I won't resist buying it...). I just wanted to give some info on ClassicVerb.

BTW, PoCo also comes with MegaReverb, which offers diffusion and room size parameters, but it sounds like most TC reverbs, non Lexicon-ish at all ; it's more clean and natural (and I very rarely use it).

[ericj23]

i might be your man - i have had csr demo for a bit and I own 2 powercores - csr does have a certain thick sound (i am not good at describing sounds) that classic verb doesnt quite have - sort of a more swilry chorus esque fluctuation of the tail - but in truth i probably preferred the classic verb.

I dont own csr

and yes all the extra poco plugs are amazing - so the money for csr would be better spent on those - but reverse reverb would be nice

[susiwong]

Having sold my Powercore because of TC's incredibly poor driver situation I thought I'd miss the stock reverbs - until I got CSR (yes, it's grown on me in spite of my initial doubts).
Haven't looked back since, though I still regularly use the UAD reverbs and some other stuff .
Cheers, susiwong

[Richard Lichten]

Classic Verb is fine, though all TC stuff has this sort of slighly-boring "top 40" sound IMO.
Another idea would be a Scope Card (Pulsar 2 should go for the same amount as PoCo now), it can do much more, sound generally better than PoCo, has a huge amount of good free or cheap additional plugins and if you look, you find great verbs also (theres Masterverb and Sonic Timeworks 4080 which are nice, a free Plate reverb as good as the UAD 140 one and the guy from CSR did Reverbs which are the best sounding i've ever heard on a PC system (distributed through Sonic Timeworks now)).

[Broken]

,,

[akisd28]

Classic Verb is fine, though all TC stuff has this sort of slighly-boring "top 40" sound IMO.
Another idea would be a Scope Card (Pulsar 2 should go for the same amount as PoCo now), it can do much more, sound generally better than PoCo, has a huge amount of good free or cheap additional plugins and if you look, you find great verbs also (theres Masterverb and Sonic Timeworks 4080 which are nice, a free Plate reverb as good as the UAD 140 one and the guy from CSR did Reverbs which are the best sounding i've ever heard on a PC system (distributed through Sonic Timeworks now)).

The Pulsar/Creamware effects aren't even close to being as good as the Powercore.

I agree.

[OMU]

I really like the Creamware stuff.
One of the best modular synths out there is Modular III.
However, their OS is WinXP and OS9 only, so no OSX version for me. If the compatibility was not an issue I would be for sure on a Scope Professional card.

Anyway, what are really the differences in sound between ClassivVerb and CSR?
I understand the tweakability differences, but I'm actually interested more about the sound.

[hifiboom]

Classic Verb is fine, though all TC stuff has this sort of slighly-boring "top 40" sound IMO.
Another idea would be a Scope Card (Pulsar 2 should go for the same amount as PoCo now), it can do much more, sound generally better than PoCo, has a huge amount of good free or cheap additional plugins and if you look, you find great verbs also (theres Masterverb and Sonic Timeworks 4080 which are nice, a free Plate reverb as good as the UAD 140 one and the guy from CSR did Reverbs which are the best sounding i've ever heard on a PC system (distributed through Sonic Timeworks now)).

The Pulsar/Creamware effects aren't even close to being as good as the Powercore. The only reverb plugins they had that where any good where developed by the same guy that did CSR

CSR is a much smarter option, no stability or latency issues and very low CPU load

sorry but this is just wrong...
I agree that the higher end TC reverbs are top-notch, but the Creamware reverbs are also very nice, even the stock Masterverb Pro is sounding good.

The stock fx beat many software-based fx...

The additional fx like the Vinco is one of the best compressors out there, and beats everything I have heard so far.
There are also some higher class reverbs for Scope, like ST Plate, Ambiance and Inverse, there is a Neve RMX 16 Reverb emulation and some other cool things.

The Scope card also has the best sounding synths out there and the modular + Flexor is just nice...
Latency is nearly 0, and all the DSP stuff is very stable...
Scope is like having hardware with a software interface. No latency compensation needed.... its a realtime environment

You get a low latency soundcard with up x-ASIO ins and x-ASIO outs.
You can easily integrate external efffect units, and many more...

Routing possibilies are way ahead Cubase and others...

The Powercore standard fx are also not the best ones... you have to pay much money to get the classA reverbs

You get much more with a Creamware card than with a Powercore ...
ATM, the Scope cards are underrated...

And if I want TC reverb, I can easily buy an external unit... which seems even cheaper than buying the algos step buy step for the Powercore+ the card....(you easily reach 2000€)

you get a used 480L for that money....

[aMUSEd]

a free Plate reverb as good as the UAD 140 one

What free plate? - the only one I know is paid for (the one by Warp who did the CSR)