ClassicVerb vs CSR

[akisd28]

Classic Verb is fine, though all TC stuff has this sort of slighly-boring "top 40" sound IMO.
Another idea would be a Scope Card (Pulsar 2 should go for the same amount as PoCo now), it can do much more, sound generally better than PoCo, has a huge amount of good free or cheap additional plugins and if you look, you find great verbs also (theres Masterverb and Sonic Timeworks 4080 which are nice, a free Plate reverb as good as the UAD 140 one and the guy from CSR did Reverbs which are the best sounding i've ever heard on a PC system (distributed through Sonic Timeworks now)).

The Pulsar/Creamware effects aren't even close to being as good as the Powercore. The only reverb plugins they had that where any good where developed by the same guy that did CSR

CSR is a much smarter option, no stability or latency issues and very low CPU load

The Scope card also has the best sounding synths out there and the modular + Flexor is just nice...
Latency is nearly 0, and all the DSP stuff is very stable...

You get a low latency soundcard with up x-ASIO ins and x-ASIO outs.
You can easily integrate external efffect units, and many more...

Routing possibilies are way ahead Cubase and others...

True, it's an amazing platform with great synths and routing capabilities; I just wish the Pulsar XTC I had bought just worked with my system. Their support was utter crap, BTW.

The Powercore standard fx are also not the best ones...

Better than the standard Creamware ones IMHO.

you have to pay much money to get the classA reverbs

True.

You get much more with a Creamware card than with a Powercore ...
ATM, the Scope cards are underrated...

I think this is due to their bad implementation in other environments, like VST. Personally, I wouldn't like to limit myself to what is available for that platform.

And if I want TC reverb, I can easily buy an external unit... which seems even cheaper than buying the algos step buy step for the Powercore+ the card....(you easily reach 2000€)

you get a used 480L for that money....

It's not THAT expensive. Here's a bundle with all 4 optional PoCo reverbs for $1080 (with the 10% forum discount):

https://www.jrrshop.com/product_info.ph ... c4890bca03

[aMUSEd]

Scope is like having hardware with a software interface. No latency compensation needed.... its a realtime environment

Yes this I think is what seems to get left out in comparing DSP cards - Scope is the only one that is latency free and doesnt need compensation as it is a self contained audio environment whearas the others provide VST plugins for hosts and therefore require compensation for their latency (you can of course also do that in Scope as it coems with VST versions but it's not necessary to do that)

Also you can make your own FX - Modular runs as a synth or effect

[akisd28]

Scope is like having hardware with a software interface. No latency compensation needed.... its a realtime environment

Yes this I think is what seems to get left out in comparing DSP cards - Scope is the only one that is latency free and doesnt need compensation as it is a self contained audio environment whearas the others provide VST plugins for hosts and therefore require compensation for their latency (you can of course also do that in Scope as it coems with VST versions but it's not necessary to do that)

You forgot ProTools and SoundScape. But, am I right in thinking that you can use Scope at the same time with Cubase, routing in and out of the mixer and using VST plugs at the same time in the Cubase mixer? Unlike ProTools, of course, but I think SoundScape does it, too.

[aMUSEd]

Scope is like having hardware with a software interface. No latency compensation needed.... its a realtime environment

Yes this I think is what seems to get left out in comparing DSP cards - Scope is the only one that is latency free and doesnt need compensation as it is a self contained audio environment whearas the others provide VST plugins for hosts and therefore require compensation for their latency (you can of course also do that in Scope as it coems with VST versions but it's not necessary to do that)

You forgot ProTools and SoundScape. But, am I right in thinking that you can use Scope at the same time with Cubase, routing in and out of the mixer and using VST plugs at the same time in the Cubase mixer? Unlike ProTools, of course, but I think SoundScape does it, too.

Probably because I've not heard of Soundscape and know almost nothing about ProTools.

Yes with Scope you can use it with the ASIO app as the "plugin" to the Scope environment - that's how I use it with Tracktion (don't have Cubase but I'm told you can do similar though a bit more complicated I believe) - that way I get to integrate my external hardware and Scope plugins with my software plugins too.

[hifiboom]

https://www.jrrshop.com/product_info.ph ... c4890bca03

wow, this is a nice bundle, .... good price.

Actually the Scope project cards now come with mix and master bundle, if you choose it, you get Vinco, OptiMaster, PSY Q and Masterverb Pro and Vocodizer22.....

All these tools are very high-quality, the Powercore is more a reverb card...is the powercore a versatile card ...?


For XTC mode, I don't like that one too much, its like cutting away all the cards possibilities, the standard mode is much more flexible ...

Scope at least is also a good low-latency multichannel sound card, so if you go buy Powercore or UAD, you have to invest in a good sound card too...

[akisd28]

https://www.jrrshop.com/product_info.ph ... c4890bca03

wow, this is a nice bundle, .... good price.

Actually the Scope project cards now come with mix and master bundle, if you choose it, you get Vinco, OptiMaster, PSY Q and Masterverb Pro and Vocodizer22.....

All these tools are very high-quality, the Powercore is more a reverb card...is the powercore a versatile card ...?

I've tried all of them but Vinco and Powercore easily covers them all, apart from the vocoder thing. ClassicVerb and MegaReverb sound just better to me than MasterVerb Pro, Psy Q sounds uglier than Character (I don't really like either) and Powercore also comes with MasterX3, which should be pretty much at the same league as Optimaster, if not better. Add to that TC EqSat, Dynamic EQ, DeNoise, Tubifex (that's a good one!) etc. and you get a great bundle.

Scope at least is also a good low-latency multichannel sound card, so if you go buy Powercore or UAD, you have to invest in a good sound card too...

True, but at the same time, routing eats up DSP on the Scope and those synths are damn power hungry - sound great, though.

[hifiboom]

okay with reverb its always a matter of taste....

As I said I like the masterverb very much. I'm not a big fan of TC reverbs, because they sound kind of "dead"...

So you cannot say this is better than that.

Of course with the TC cards you get TC quality reverb, thats not the question... and you can upgrade to higher end TC reverb stuff.(VSS3, NonLin,...)

But you can get Lexicon quality reverbs with the Scope platform (warp reverbs) or the new RMX 16 reverb, that is also very lush and natural sounding.
This is just a matter of taste.

But for the other tools I think the Creamware cards are way ahead the Powercore and the UAD...
I don't need thousand different "good" compressors....
Its enough to have one stunning sounding one, and Vinco is really very good.
you can find my sound demos at the end of this thread:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=110148
I cannot hear any difference between this and the real 1176 compressor.
This alone makes it worth the buy....

The EQs, delays and the other standard tools are also very good...

The whole mixing on SFP sounds better and cleaner than for example in Cubase internal software mixer...

I always mix in SFP, sound-wise.

Routing flexibiltiy is not fixed like in Cubase, you can do everything you can do with hardware + you can integrate external fx and synth and handle them exactly like the internal ones...

I wouldn't be happy to be fixed on just "TC-stuff", not saying it is bad.

And there are even nice third party tools, like SPL Transient Designer or Orbitone Impressor, Filterbanks, Flexor...

This stuff sounds 3 times more like real hardware than any VST fx...at least at the moment.

Load a minimax and you got the best sounding emulation of a hardware synth...

With Scope you get everything for the price of one....
-nice multichannel soundcard
-powerful modularIII system
-good reverbs
-nice compressor
-best sounding plug-in synths

and if this is not enough, you can add every hardware tool to complement the list...and in these days the hardware sometimes is cheaper than the plug-ins if you look to the results...

[hifiboom]

@OMU:

these are the amazona review sound samples with a snare:
CSR
http://www.amazona.de/media/articles/so ... _csr_1.mp3

TC ClassicVerb
http://www.amazona.de/media/articles/so ... tccv_1.mp3

From my listening the CSR has a better spacial reverb with more 3D feeling...

The reviewer ranked them like this:
(1)VSS3
(2)CSR
(3)ClassicVerb

But as I said its a matter of taste....

At least you have to buy to check out on your own... or try in a shop...
You need to check a reverb in a mix to see if its good or not...
Some demo sound just give you genral impression of what it can do...

I did the same with may Scope cards, I bought them on ebay, tried them out and loved them, so I stayed with them, elsewise I would have already sold them on ebay agin.

You could do the same with the Powercores....
The best thing IMO is to have your own hands on the tools...

producing music is making art, and as with any art it all depends on taste...
So find the tools that fit your personal liking....and not what is genrally considered good.

[OMU]

Thanks hifiboom for the links.
I'll just give them a listen.

[OMU]

I listened to the samples and beside the fact that they consist of a single snare hit, each of them, I can only say that I kinda liked the CSR as it had a richer sound.
The thing is, I'm on a G4 and I have no intention to upgrade the computer soon, so the cpu is not the strongest point in my setup. I tested the CSR and liked it a lot but it's quite hungry on my G4. At around 3-4 sec reverb tail the cpu load was about the same as with SpaceDesigner, which is a convolution based reverb for those who don't know that.
So at this point a PoCo is a great addition and I intend to use it for running the Virus and send reverbs mainly. Of course, Character, Filtroid and the other goodies will be used but probably not that often. MD3 will be purchased together with the Sony Oxford Inflator for the mastering tasks, but that's a different story.
At this point I'm also thinking to purchase the VSS3 instead of CSR for the simple fact that it runs on the dedicated hardware.
But, as it comes on the pricey side I'm thinking... CSR is 285 E at thomann.de ... VSS3 is 544 E...

[akisd28]

DON'T BUY ANY TC REVERBS BEFORE YOU LOOK AT THE JRR PRICES!!!

Sorry for the shout, I just want to prevent you from spending more than you should. If you don't know it already, you get an extra 10% discount from JRR as a forum member and you get e-mail delivery for PowerCore plug-ins: no shipping costs, no tax.

FYI, VSS3 works out @ approximately 350 euros at JRR:

https://www.jrrshop.com/product_info.ph ... 8acae4bd42

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[jplanet]

I got rid of my Poco, used the money to build another dual-core workstation. With Arts Acoustic or CSR you get that "dsp card quality" now anyway. When I first bught the Poco there were no native reverbs that could compete, but now that's changing...

[akisd28]

I listened to the samples and beside the fact that they consist of a single snare hit, each of them, I can only say that I kinda liked the CSR as it had a richer sound.
The thing is, I'm on a G4 and I have no intention to upgrade the computer soon, so the cpu is not the strongest point in my setup. I tested the CSR and liked it a lot but it's quite hungry on my G4. At around 3-4 sec reverb tail the cpu load was about the same as with SpaceDesigner, which is a convolution based reverb for those who don't know that.
So at this point a PoCo is a great addition and I intend to use it for running the Virus and send reverbs mainly. Of course, Character, Filtroid and the other goodies will be used but probably not that often. MD3 will be purchased together with the Sony Oxford Inflator for the mastering tasks, but that's a different story.
At this point I'm also thinking to purchase the VSS3 instead of CSR for the simple fact that it runs on the dedicated hardware.
But, as it comes on the pricey side I'm thinking... CSR is 285 E at thomann.de ... VSS3 is 544 E...

Your only option is powercore if your still using a G4. Keep in mind that opening powercore plugins uses a about as much cpu as one of the crappy algo reverbs that come with Logic.

Is this true with PCI or FW?

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