KVR Audio

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:43 am

Hello,

I know this has been covered before but my post is slightly different due to my preferences. I am looking for a piano action midi keyboard controller with the following specs in order of importance

1. Can detect all the velocities from 1 to 127. Accurately!
2. Has velocity scaling
3. 88 keys but 76 will be considered.
4. midi controller only but will consider keyboard with sounds
5. light key action rather heavy
6. Feel of the key is important also
7. Prefer midi out or USB out is ok.
8. New or used. low price
9. knobs and faders ok.

I had the Elka MK88 which I really liked. Is anyone selling theirs?

Discussion on velocity capability of keyboards:
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/arc ... 43961.html

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:06 am

Kalamata Kid wrote: I had the Elka MK88 which I really liked. Is anyone selling theirs?

I wonder about this phenomenon (Had what you wanted, didn't keep it somehow, want it back...)

I try not to buy anything that I don't intend on keeping until it is beyond repair or I am.

XDVarenkor · Post by **XDVarenkor** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:17 am

Yamaha P70 - light (but realistic, and graded) hammer action with great feel and expressiveness. 88 weighted keys in a surprisingly light keyboard, MIDI, and a handful of fantastic sounds for those moments when you just want to switch something on and play. No knobs or faders - I haven't missed them yet. *Very* cheap for what you get - check out some local prices and you'll soon see what I mean. Very very very happy with mine.

djdorian · Post by **djdorian** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:22 am

You just described the Yamaha Clavinova 230 and higher.

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:35 am

Hello james0tucson, XDVarenkor and djdorian,

Thanks for the replies.

I was forced to sell the Elka MK88 (at a good price) when returned to the US. Needed the money!

So the P70 and the Yamaha Clavinova 230 are very similar?

My main concern is velocity sensing and velocity scaling. Is this what is called expressiveness?

djdorian · Post by **djdorian** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:48 am

Kalamata Kid wrote:Hello james0tucson, XDVarenkor and djdorian,

Thanks for the replies.

I was forced to sell the Elka MK88 (at a good price) when returned to the US. Needed the money!

So the P70 and the Yamaha Clavinova 230 are very similar?

My main concern is velocity sensing and velocity scaling. Is this what is called expressiveness?

Not really sure about the P70, as I may or may not have ever played on one at Guitar Center and other music stores.

Many of Yamaha's more recent keyboard lines are very similair to the Clavinova. The reason for the similarities are that (according to a Guitar Center Sales Representative) Yamaha has a business model in which they only allow dedicated, brick-n-mortar "Piano Stores" to carry their official Clavinova line. They sell the "knock-offs" to everynoe else.

Supposedly you can buy some of Yamaha's cheaper "Clavinova-like" keyboards for far less, and they are just as good. I can't verify this claim, however.

RichLum · Post by **RichLum** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:57 am

I have a P70 also and am happy with it.
It is good having the inbuilt sounds as I use it unconnected to anything lot of the time just practicing/noodling. And with the built in speakers can just pick it up and move it from room to room real easy.

I was also considering the Casio CDP100, PX100 and PX300.

The action on all 3 Casio's was the same and comparable to the Yamaha. I chose the P70 as I liked the sound a feel a bit better but would have been happy with the Casio too.
The CDP100 is real cheap as it has an older internal sample set, but the action feels the same to me.
I've read of a lot of people picking these (or the Radio Shack rebadge job) as weighted midi controllers and not being concerned with using the internal sounds.

djdorian · Post by **djdorian** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:25 am

When it comes to the realism of the key-weighting, the key action, and the instrument's general quality, I haven't found anything which equals the Clavinova CLP-280, IMHO, besides actual acoustic pianos.

And it is generally regarded as the best pro digital piano.

That being said, it is a tad bit heavy... and expen$ive.

Musicisbest · Post by **Musicisbest** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:03 am

Kalamata Kid wrote:Hello,

I know this has been covered before but my post is slightly different due to my preferences. I am looking for a piano action midi keyboard controller with the following specs in order of importance

1. Can detect all the velocities from 1 to 127. Accurately!
2. Has velocity scaling
3. 88 keys but 76 will be considered.
4. midi controller only but will consider keyboard with sounds
5. light key action rather heavy
6. Feel of the key is important also
7. Prefer midi out or USB out is ok.
8. New or used. low price
9. knobs and faders ok.

I had the Elka MK88 which I really liked. Is anyone selling theirs?

Discussion on velocity capability of keyboards:
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/arc ... 43961.html

I am looking for the same thing but also need one that is good for playing drum samples..
any ideas?

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:35 am

I am no expert but was very surprised at the feel of the Casio pianos and the price is right.

I am only partially concerned if the feel is of a real piano. I am more concerted how I like the feel without the piano reference.

Checked the Clavinova CLP-280 http://music.yamaha.com/products/main.h ... ductId=816 but do not use it with the cabinet. I will be using the Art Vista Virtual Grand Piano VSTi which I ma very fond of.

So up to now the Elka MK88 and the P70 are on top of the list. Correct?

Would everyone with the keyboards recommended try to see if their keyboard can produce velocity readings from 1 to 127. Are the results consistent on a key. Are they consistent on several keys? Are the velocity scaling really good?

XDVarenkor · Post by **XDVarenkor** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:49 pm

Kalamata Kid wrote:Would everyone with the keyboards recommended try to see if their keyboard can produce velocity readings from 1 to 127. Are the results consistent on a key. Are they consistent on several keys? Are the velocity scaling really good?

I'm not about to set up a controlled experiment to see if the response of the P70 is absolutely consistent, but as a piano player of 26 years' experience I can assure you that it's not perceptibly inconsistent. Play one in a shop and you'll see - very expressive, and certainly capable of generating the full range of MIDI velocity values. I can close my eyes when playing and *feel* the grand piano in front of me, especially through good headphones. And the scaling (graded hammer action) is so good, I can feel the *weight* of the piano too.

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:36 pm

My main concern is that all or most velocities (1-128) are outputted to in my case Cubase. It would be great if this can be verified from people that own the keyboards.

Also important is that there is consistency in the velocity of finger and the midi velocity. The only reason I bring this up is because I read some had problems with consistency.

By velocity scaling I mean velocity curves. Are the curves helpful? What is the meaning of graded and how important is this? What I want is light piano action. Also prefer action that is not too noisy.

So it seems that the P70 is the winner unless there is more input on the subject. At $600 it is reasonably priced. Importunely the Yamaha Clavinova is available only in a cabinet.

BTW how is the M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 rated. Does anyone have experience with it. It was covered in a thread but could not locate it. http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/K ... -main.html

How about the StudioLogic VMK188 (list $1000)
http://studiologic.net/vmk-188.html

How about UF Omnipotent Master Keyboard
http://cme-pro.com/products-list/product-uf.html

I am surprised no one posted any older master keyboards.

XDVarenkor · Post by **XDVarenkor** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:20 am

Keystation Pro 88 is awful. Noisy, spongy action. Very inconsistent response. The CME UF8 is fantastic, but be prepared for a few driver issues, a lengthy play-in period and a keyboard that weighs as much as you do. It's not graded either. I've got one and love the action, but bought the P70 as something I could just switch on and jam with.

FYI, a graded hammer action is when bass notes have a 'heavier' response than treble - this closely mimics the response of a grand piano. The P70 has a few response curves as well (the default makes a nice light piano touch, while there's a heavier one that suits the inbuilt Rhodes sound perfectly). No consistency issues here, seriously. And it does output the full range of MIDI velocities.

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:34 am

I like my Korg SP-200 (they're called SP-250 now, maybe the cruddy sound has improved?) Its a great controller, great piano action, understated looks, the price is right, but has horrible sound - just amazingly bad (very short samples that loop early... no evidence of multi velocity samples either). But that doesn't matter to me as I only use it as a controller.

EDIT: oops, you want light keys. I think the Korg's action is on the heavy side. And I forgot to mention it's a true hammer action, you can feel the hammers bouncing back... very important for piano IMHO, but maybe you don't like that.

djdorian · Post by **djdorian** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:41 am

I wish that the Clavinova had utilized a "true hammer action." Especially at the price that Yamaha charges for it, I figure that'd be better than the so-called "Graded Hammer Action," which is a misnomer at best and false advertising on the part of Yamaha at worst. That being said, their key-action is supposedly the best out of all weighted-action keyboards.

Help me select a piano action keyboard midi controller