Voxengo needs a freeware compressor.

[brok landers]

This would be cool as I notice this is the one thing you are missing as freeware. If you every do make a good one for vocals with no latency and no clipping. Thanks. If anyone else has any orders please reply. But seriously a freeware compressor from you would be cool. Thanks

You are almost catching my thoughts. Because I do really plan to release a couple of quality freeware plug-ins very soon. This will be a sort of exchange of plug-ins for end user testing. Because after all the work we have done here at Voxengo, things have to be tested before going commercial.

hey alexey, nice to hear!
could you please consider a brickwall limiter in the freeware compressor, right after the out-stage of the compressor? no saturation stage, but a limiter with a slightly longer release, just so that it doesn't distort, so that i can drive the out gain of the compressed signal into the brickwall ... i strongly miss that in all your compressors (don't wanna use another plugin for that all the time) ... they sound absoluteley great, but that was the reason why i still didn't by crunchessor ...
no biggie ... no offend ... just asking ...
maybe it helps ...

[Kingston]

brok I'm just wondering,

why do you need a brick wall? If things clip in mixdown stage you have these things called faders you can turn down. Then at mastering stage we have Elephants and MPL-1 etc. Plenty of those around and you only really need one. And a simple brick wall cannot possibly sound better than a dedicated mastering limiter.

[egbert]

could you please consider a brickwall limiter in the freeware compressor, right after the out-stage of the compressor? no saturation stage, but a limiter with a slightly longer release, just so that it doesn't distort, so that i can drive the out gain of the compressed signal into the brickwall ... i strongly miss that in all your compressors (don't wanna use another plugin for that all the time) ... they sound absoluteley great, but that was the reason why i still didn't by crunchessor ...
no biggie ... no offend ... just asking ...
maybe it helps ...

Brok, I'm not sure why you need this. I use a limiter on the master outs for this - TLS Pocket Limiter or Kjaerhus GPP are low latency and will protect my speakers/ears.

When I mix/master I will reach for the longer latency limiters perhaps but either way I don't care if a channel or a group goes over - no clipping happens in 32 bit float so channel overs don't matter at all.

[pough]

I wish I could just buy the Delay on its own. Or perhaps a smaller pack with Delay, Chorus and.. somthing else... Phaser?

Yeah, the delay on its own is what I've been craving. Maybe the chorus as well, but for the most part I just want that delay.

[jmbriley]

Quick, I need a freeware studio....a freeware SSL Console....a Freeware LA2A Limiter....a Freeware Andromeda A6....a Freeware producer....a Freeware engineer....a Freeware band....and throw in a Freeware couch too, so I can sit on my cheap, bargain-hunter, welfare ass and still produce a hit record.



Stop being a bitch and buy Crunchessor.

Wow, was this directed toward me? Since I started this thread I think it was but do not want to be incorrect for assuming. I do not think my post was out of line considering the fact that the developer it was regarding has already confirmed my thoughts were indeed in the works. I really hate the fact that a simple non offensive thought could cause another person to use such a derogatory term toward me. Well I'm assuming maybe this was not directed toward me. I apologize if my post offended anyone.

[bduffy]

Quick, I need a freeware studio....a freeware SSL Console....a Freeware LA2A Limiter....a Freeware Andromeda A6....a Freeware producer....a Freeware engineer....a Freeware band....and throw in a Freeware couch too, so I can sit on my cheap, bargain-hunter, welfare ass and still produce a hit record.



Stop being a bitch and buy Crunchessor.

Shhh...Aleskey's actually going to do it!

But if you want quality stuff, eventually you have to pay for it, at least to support further development.

[jmbriley]

This would be cool as I notice this is the one thing you are missing as freeware. If you every do make a good one for vocals with no latency and no clipping. Thanks. If anyone else has any orders please reply. But seriously a freeware compressor from you would be cool. Thanks

You are almost catching my thoughts. Because I do really plan to release a couple of quality freeware plug-ins very soon. This will be a sort of exchange of plug-ins for end user testing. Because after all the work we have done here at Voxengo, things have to be tested before going commercial.

hey alexey, nice to hear!
could you please consider a brickwall limiter in the freeware compressor, right after the out-stage of the compressor? no saturation stage, but a limiter with a slightly longer release, just so that it doesn't distort, so that i can drive the out gain of the compressed signal into the brickwall ... i strongly miss that in all your compressors (don't wanna use another plugin for that all the time) ... they sound absoluteley great, but that was the reason why i still didn't by crunchessor ...
no biggie ... no offend ... just asking ...
maybe it helps ...

I understand you thoughts Brok as I too like some type of limiting from my compressor cause my material too seems to clip. I do not think this is a stupid wish since alot of compressor do have this option. It is kinda like if you asked for a gate when you could just edit out the noise. Of course you could edit out the noise so why does anyone make gates. Just my thoughts. Don't mind me I'm just typing out loud.

[bool]

Quick, I need a freeware studio....a freeware SSL Console....a Freeware LA2A Limiter....a Freeware Andromeda A6....a Freeware producer....a Freeware engineer....a Freeware band....and throw in a Freeware couch too, so I can sit on my cheap, bargain-hunter, welfare ass and still produce a hit record.

Actually this is a very reasonable and sane way of thinking. Imho hit-driven market isn't something to heavily invest into in the first place.

[TotcProductions]

Quick, I need a freeware studio....a freeware SSL Console....a Freeware LA2A Limiter....a Freeware Andromeda A6....a Freeware producer....a Freeware engineer....a Freeware band....and throw in a Freeware couch too, so I can sit on my cheap, bargain-hunter, welfare ass and still produce a hit record.



Stop being a bitch and buy Crunchessor.

Wow, was this directed toward me? Since I started this thread I think it was but do not want to be incorrect for assuming. I do not think my post was out of line considering the fact that the developer it was regarding has already confirmed my thoughts were indeed in the works. I really hate the fact that a simple non offensive thought could cause another person to use such a derogatory term toward me. Well I'm assuming maybe this was not directed toward me. I apologize if my post offended anyone.

Relax Jmbriley. No real offense meant. More of an extremely harsh sarcasm that infests my personality. (see the smilie with the toungue sticking out? ).

It's just that there are a few folks around these parts, and most other places too, that are looking for a quick download and nothing more. I've noticed a rising change in the atmosphere of this industry, where folks feel they have the right to demand free things from any developer, as well as demanding features, better quality, price reductions, group buys, etc..etc..etc....without paying a dime. This attitude drives me insane. I suppose this lack of respect for our dev's is due to the saturation point the market is swiftly reaching (if we're not there already), and I do agree, that there are quite a few free and cheap plugs that are of a very high quality...But, there are plenty of developers that deserve a bit more respect, and probably some cash, for their efforts. Especially if you want the industry to grow.

I'm not directly accusing you of this behavior...just addressing the climate.
And I feel that Alesky has many more-than-resonably priced products that will serve your purposes beautifully....so I'd rather see folks buying and supporting the dev, than starting rally's for free items. My apologies if this all comes off as too harsh...the subject just gets my blood boiling.

Now, the bitch line was directed at you. But again, it was stated in a humerous, sarcastic manner, and direct offense was not the intention.

Welcome to kvr!

Peace

[ATS]

This would be cool as I notice this is the one thing you are missing as freeware. If you every do make a good one for vocals with no latency and no clipping. Thanks. If anyone else has any orders please reply. But seriously a freeware compressor from you would be cool. Thanks

you should tell your boss at work you want to work for free.

[pough]

you should tell your boss at work you want to work for free.

My boss already thinks that.

[brok landers]

brok I'm just wondering,

why do you need a brick wall? If things clip in mixdown stage you have these things called faders you can turn down. Then at mastering stage we have Elephants and MPL-1 etc. Plenty of those around and you only really need one. And a simple brick wall cannot possibly sound better than a dedicated mastering limiter.

ok, a deeper explanation:
a general note:
the brickwall is very necessary on _individual_ tracks. for mastering there are, like you say, plenty choices of exellent plugins.
however, in this post i will probably state stuff you already know, please forgive me that, i just do this in order to make users understand this, who have less experiance ...

here we go ...
first: if you want to achieve the similar loudness
in the digital domain compared to the analog realm, one has to consider one thing always:
digital is limited to 0db strictly.
so:
in anolog, as these boundaries are not present.
lets say you just compress a snare. you leave the attack open, to get a snappy, puchy compression, the transients of the signal slip through unprocessed.
what you have now is a punchy, snappy signal, but the signal appears less loud (rms). now, in the analog domain, you just raise the gain of the output of the compressor, it doesn't really matter if the transients start to peak, as there is no _strictly_0db border, at which, when overdriven, the sound gets crunchy and unpleasant because of clipping.
in analog you have a still good sounding, saturating sound, which equals the audible level of the original signal, unless you don't hopless overdrive the signal.

now, in the digital domain you cannot do that this way.
when you compress the signal and leave the attack open a bit, you can push up the signal just to 0db. never overshooting. still the transients which pass through the compressor prevent you from raising the signal higher than 0db, result is a maybe great sound, but less average level.
so, what one can do in the digital domain, it put a brickwall limiter after the comressed signal.
now, if you raise the output of the compressor towards the 0db limiter/saturator, you can achieve the same average loudness again as the original sound, thus you don't have a loudness-loss in the whole mix.
a side effect (important and underrateted greatly, if you ask me) is, that, this way done,
you can hear what the compressor _actually_ does to the sound _exept_ making it louder, which then is better to judge about what you do ...

why is that so important?
here's an example:
the loudest signal in a mix, i.e. a bassdrum, should be adjusted to 0db. now, it maybe needs a compression in order to shape the punch. now, when you compress that signal, you need to leave the attack open mostly, as the attack shape of a bd is very important.
but the signal cannot be raised again, as the transients pass through, which still hit 0db.
what you have now is a punchy signal, the way you need it, but the rms is audible lower now.
what one has to do to achieve the same _audible_ loudness is, to raise the signal against the 0db limiter.
mostly you find an average level-position (a compromise, if you will), where the snappyness/punch is still there, but the signal is at equal average level again.

now, why is this necessary again?
in the digital domain a signal is transported the way it is recorded. all transients strictly stay the way you recorded them (aliasing and stuff left aside, this is a completeley differnt topic ).
in analog this is never the case.
the signal passes hundreds of stages, units, be it a transistor or a tube or whatever.
these units all have tolerances, which get mostly _allways_ overdriven a tiny bit. by that fact the signal gets shaped, the transients get smoother, so you can raise the signal way more without audible distortion. this is the case, even when the signal is not compressed actually, just buy simply recording it to tape (tape saturation), run it throug the console (transistor/units saturation), raising the gain at the console (again transistor/units saturation) to the point, at where the signal actually _starts_ to sound.
what you have now is a signal which is way more steady and averagely louder than the same signal, which is recorded and played back (also unprocessed) in the digital domain.
and another thing is important in conjunction with the upper stated.
there is a rule in analog and digital:
the louder the loudest signal in the mix, the louder all other signals can be, and the louder you achive a mix _without_ summary compression.
think about it:
if the signals are steady, not so jumpy (this jumpyness is the natural behave in the digital domain), you achieve a better balanced summing-signal, which you then can raise way more near 0db, no clipping, w/o mastering compression. result is, you don't have to overcompress at the mastering stage to achieve the same loudness as in the analog realm.
think about it, the mastering compressor (no matter how good it is) is no miracle, in the end it compresses the signal, thats it.
but when the signals are summed unsteady and jumpy, these transients will shoot way more up, thus you cannot raise the masterfader thatmuch as you could when done as i describe, which leads to the fact, that one has to compress way more at the mastering stage than he should, to achieve similar loudness in comparsion to analog loudness.
that's when the whole mix strongly suffers.

so, finally, to summ it up.
the loudness of a mix is mostly achieved in the _individual_ tracks.
and in the digital domaim, because of the strict 0db border, the only way to achieve the same loudness in the end, a limiter after the compression stage in an individual channel is absoluteley necessary.

a sidenote is, that the overall sound strongly benefits from compression/limiting (when applied wiseley), i don't have to tell you. the colour that pure analog is adding by itself, without you doing anything actually, is totally missing in the digital realm, if you don't consciously add it.
thats why in the digital realm one needs a limiter after compression often, where one in the analog domain can often do without the limiter, cause it's done by itself, if you will.
or, because of the fact that the 0db border is not strict, one can overdrive the signal way more before it gets audibly distorted, reaching a louder, pleasant sound than in digital.

that all said, exeptions tighten the rule, of course ...

but finally, the way one has to develop a plugin/produce a song in digital _must_ be different, to achieve equal analog sound if that is possible at all (because the rules are totally different in both domains).

sorry for my english, it lacks of profession a lot when it comes to such deep explanations.
i hope you can understand what i mean ...

[brok landers]

It's just that there are a few folks around these parts, and most other places too, that are looking for a quick download and nothing more. I've noticed a rising change in the atmosphere of this industry, where folks feel they have the right to demand free things from any developer, as well as demanding features, better quality, price reductions, group buys, etc..etc..etc....without paying a dime. This attitude drives me insane. I suppose this lack of respect for our dev's is due to the saturation point the market is swiftly reaching (if we're not there already), and I do agree, that there are quite a few free and cheap plugs that are of a very high quality...But, there are plenty of developers that deserve a bit more respect, and probably some cash, for their efforts. Especially if you want the industry to grow.

totc,this is a great post, you pretty much nailed the head.
if that post wouldn't be too long i'd consider this as my signature ...
couldn't have been said better!

[TotcProductions]

It's just that there are a few folks around these parts, and most other places too, that are looking for a quick download and nothing more. I've noticed a rising change in the atmosphere of this industry, where folks feel they have the right to demand free things from any developer, as well as demanding features, better quality, price reductions, group buys, etc..etc..etc....without paying a dime. This attitude drives me insane. I suppose this lack of respect for our dev's is due to the saturation point the market is swiftly reaching (if we're not there already), and I do agree, that there are quite a few free and cheap plugs that are of a very high quality...But, there are plenty of developers that deserve a bit more respect, and probably some cash, for their efforts. Especially if you want the industry to grow.

totc,this is a great post, you pretty much nailed the head.
if that post wouldn't be too long i'd consider this as my signature ...
couldn't have been said better!

[Kingston]

I'm sorry brok but I couldn't read through all that. It's just too convoluted and full of factual errors, too many of them based on how you think digital vs. analog mixing works.

There's absolutely *no such thing* as less average level on digital mixes. The *only* place you can clip the signal is at the master bus, and simply pulling down the fader is the solution. Then in mastering stage you can use the onle mastering clipper/limiter to sort out a good level.

You absolutely safely peak *every single* one of your individual tracks, no matter if you use compression or not, no matter what the time constants or "snap" you want. You turn down the master fader and you lost nothing.

I think you will have to read up on RMS levels and gain staging a bit more, on both analog and digital side.

At this point, you can also safely forget everything you think you know about transistor and gain staging distortion. Modern analog equipment is just about linear.

Otherwise you're safely in the placebo land, making decisions based on assumptions.

because the rules are totally different in both domains.

They aren't. They almost equal, apart from a few headroom quirks, which only have to do with masterbusses, and which have nowt to do with final mix loudness, RMS and transients.