Sysex in XT2 ?

[plastique]

working on it

cheers
jorgen

I'm curious on doing some experiments with it and this may give me a reason finally to get the one or other hardware synth.

[plastique]

OK, here goes

I followed almost exclusively the concept on the first page, with controller slots which can be added and removed and contain their own settings. Every slot consists of settings for midi channel, program change, MSB, LSB and MSB/LSB send order. Globally you can set if the values should be sent on plugin init and if yes after how long of a delay in seconds.

The graphic should list all elements and their purposes:



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[Changes] 1.05:

- init setting is now global (not per preset) - this fixed some odd host behaviours


[Changes] 1.04:

- fixed problem in Bidule with sending data on startup
- added copy/paste presets function
- fixed resizing in Samplitude (I noticed that Samp doesn't support midi out from plugins so it's kinda moot anyway - at least until this changes)


[Changes] 1.03:

- fixed program name update problem
- display program name on panel
- fixed the send values on preset change bug (on new projects)



[Changes] 1.02:

- option to enable preset switching by program change messages
- "send values on preset change" option now stored in preset bank


[Changes] 1.01:

- added volume setting (CC7) per slot
- changed control behaviour (to 0-127 instead of 127-0)
- added "send values on preset change" option (not stored within preset/bank to prevent unintended value sending)
- changed MSB/LSB-swap button

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DOWNLOAD

As usual - any hints about problems, FRs or questions welcome.

Testing was done in eXT (of course), Phrazor, FruityLoops, Cubase SX3, Tracktion 1.6 (e-to-e mode needs to be enabled for the sending of the values on init), Bidule and Samplitude (needs to close/reopen plugin window to change size).

[-PIKU-]

some requests:

1-the possibility to trigger resend with a note (useful to change sounds while playng a song)

2-selectable midi out ports, like in nic_midi_out vst. without this function i will have to open many nic_MIDI_OUT, because i use 4 midi out in my pc

3- the ability to send cc. this, in combination with point 1, allows this vst to act as a "scene station" for external gear.

[-PIKU-]

oh... point 1 ok!!

[plastique]

some requests:

1-the possibility to trigger resend with a note (useful to change sounds while playng a song)

parameter automation (cc map)

2-selectable midi out ports, like in nic_midi_out vst. without this function i will have to open many nic_MIDI_OUT, because i use 4 midi out in my pc

As there are already a few plugins around that will make this possible I'm not really eager to add this. Apart from that I kinda expect that eXT will be able to handle midi out ports better in the next version than it does right now.
And as for now, I doubt I could make it better than if you use 4 of the nf_midi_outs

It could possibly make it into an extra plugin with , e.g. multiple midi outs in one plugin - which would be something else to think about (not something I could knock out here in a few moments though)

3- the ability to send cc. this, in combination with point 1, allows this vst to act as a "scene station" for external gear.

A midipart should be completely fine to send a bunch of CCs, no ? You can even trigger it with a note, or maybe even better - with a spare slot of my plugin (PC converted to note with a midi munger).
I'll think about it, but my opinion is that the existing tools might already just be fine for this.

[-PIKU-]

in midi part you cannot edit the list in midi event list. i don't how to write a list of cc quickly and clearly.
your plugin is perfect to do this. you could insert a new bar in the slots.. to select the cc number.

[plastique]

... and a value as well. I'll probably stick them in a different plugin though.
Don't want this one to get too crowded. It's rather complete - considering it's mainly targeted for the program/bank change needs. The other will concentrate on CCs then.

I'll have to let this idea settle down for a while though.

A question -PIKU-, or anyone interested, how would the order of the mesages play a role when the CCs come into play ? I assume you want them to be sent right after the bank/program changes , for fine-setting a synth program ?
Then it probably makes even less sense to put this stuff into this plugin as you probably not only want to send one single CC message per port, but rather a whole bunch of them ?

[yatzy]

Well, it's not often you can get a plug tailor-made... Great! Many thanks!!


FR:

• * The plug should resend the values when changing preset too. In that way you can use it to change programs for all plugs on a scene and external synths, without loading a new .ext-file.
  
  * I agree with PIKU about adding a cc row, but only one CC: volume, CC#7. Since the external synth's preset often is normalized you might want to set the volum for this specific song, or part of a song. An extra single row doesn't clutter upp the GUI.

Bug report:

• * Every value field defaults with maximum value(127 or 16) instead of 000, seems kind of reverse.
  * The plug should not have any audio in/out ports.

Other minor comments:

• * The switch to change bank order is a bit cryptic. It should have two arrows, one pointing up and one pointing down, like this:↓↑ or ↕.

Great work, plastique!


Regards, Magnus

[plastique]

FR:

• * The plug should resend the values when changing preset too. In that way you can use it to change programs for all plugs on a scene and external synths, without loading a new .ext-file.

I'll add an option to do this. (i.e. something like "enable autosend when program switching").

• * I agree with PIKU about adding a cc row, but only one CC: volume, CC#7. Since the external synth's preset often is normalized you might want to set the volum for this specific song, or part of a song. An extra single row doesn't clutter upp the GUI.

Ok, now this suggestion is more plausible than adding arbitrary number of CC fields. I'll see what I can do. Hardlinked to CC7 this should mean only one more row (volume value).

Bug report:

• * Every value field defaults with maximum value(127 or 16) instead of 000, seems kind of reverse.

That's not completely true. The controls default to "off". The only reverse thing is that you need to drag down from 127/16 instead from 0. It's a compromise of its design, maybe saved me an hour of coding, I don't think it's really worth to change yet and no bug at all. Sometimes you need high values, sometimes lower ones - so no real disadvantage there either
If I find the time, I'm going to change it though.

• * The plug should not have any audio in/out ports.

This needed to be done because of compatibility with other hosts.

Other minor comments:

• * The switch to change bank order is a bit cryptic. It should have two arrows, one pointing up and one pointing down, like this:↓↑ or ↕.

I can see what you mean, I'm going to change it for the next version

[plastique]

Ok, updated

(for changes see initial post above)

[glurgle]

the biggie for me is the live MIDI deltaframe issue(unlike other hosts XT records the events with flawed timing to the tracks...so even proper playback isn't possible). Forces you to run very small latencies on your audio buffer wasting resources...and even then it's no fun having your external MIDI input quantised to your buffersize.

Oh man is this true? I thought I was going crazy! Hopefully this is high priority!

[-PIKU-]

the most flexible solution is to make the vol row a midi control number row and the pc row will be the cc value row.

this is because i want to change the bank number in a synth(sidstation) and change the cutoff and release settings in another synth(rs7000 track 8)and change the arp frequency in another synth...

a question: how can i automate the preset change?

[plastique]

the most flexible solution is to make the vol row a midi control number row and the pc row will be the cc value row.

this is because i want to change the bank number in a synth(sidstation) and change the cutoff and release settings in another synth(rs7000 track 8)and change the arp frequency in another synth...

I'm afraid you gotta find a different solution as this would be against the current concept and make it unnecessary confusing. You can for example use the CC7 output to trigger something else.
I'm not going to change much anymore - only finetuning things from now on

a question: how can i automate the preset change?

Not at the moment (eXT doesn't allow it as a host itself either), but I can add an option to change presets per program change (coming in next update).

[-PIKU-]

confusing??
the ext concept is flexibility, why do we have to make something fixed???

this plus sends a certain number of midi informations regarding the sound modifications to different vst or hardware synths. i don't really think that i'm out of the concept

[plastique]

Flexibility is that you can already use a myriad of tools - together - especially in a modular host like eXT. And if these tools weren't focussed on specific targets a lot of stuff wouldn't be possible at all, or really inefficient.
I'm not trying to build the ultimate hardware-init plugin, don't get me wrong there, only a helper in the long run. If it's not for you, you gotta look somewhere different, it's a lot of time I already spent and there's tons of other things to do