An alternative to Logic

[bool]

My POV: Logic fans are exactly like Nuendo fans. "Elite professional" groups.

[spaceman]

My POV: Logic fans are exactly like Nuendo fans. "Elite professional" groups.

you should go into politics

[DHR53]

Re-reading the original post... it sounds familiar these days... Lot of people at KVR who are experts in everything, but of course have no music posted, no website with examples of their "work" and no tangible evidence that they "know" anything about anything? Coming here is like "slowing down, to look at a wreck"...

[Sascha Franck]

take the gplugs, the fish fillets and the kjaerhus classic stuff as a starting point, that should take care of 80% of your list within 5 minutes, should be an encouraging start for an evening of downloading fun (and yes, imo that stuff is a LOT better than the logic stuff, [...]

Ok, let's see, you were mentioning freeware being as good as the Logic plugins. As you didn't come up with any reasonable list, I need to ask for some specific plugins:

- EXS. I know, an outdated sampler (still very efficient and a great filter), but where's the freeware replacement? The PAAX one? Or the 2-note-polyphony version of ShortCircuit?

- EVB3. Yes, probably NubiLE will do the job (or OrganIZED Trio) for the organ part, yet, the Leslie of the EVB3 still kicks ass.

- ES2. Hm... your turn to tell me. Remember, we're talking about freeware replacements.

- EVOC. Again, your turn.

- EVD6. Dito. And please don't even try to mention TickyClav (which is kickass freeware but not even coming remotely close).

- EnVerb. Very few people are using this. It's still very unique though.

- Exciter. I know, not a great one. Yet, I wouldn't happen to know about any freeware replacements.

- SpaceDesigner. Don't even try to start with SIR or RevolVerb, the former adding incredible latency, the latter being almost feature-free and as crashy as possible.

And I won't even mention all the other newer (V6+7) plugins because (with the exception of SpaceDesigner) I'm not that familiar with them.

i will admit though that it will be hard to find plugins that do sidechaining for most of your listed cathegorys, so ill give you that: logic is probably the only program that features a pitchshifter with sidechaining. whatever thats good for

Well, I could imagine having fun with some side-chainable pitch shifter, but unfortunately that one isn't on the list.
It's very useful for the compressor though - the internal Logic compressor, while being far away from sounding great, is still a nice and efficient workhorse. Yes, there's freeware replacements doing a way better job, but try to sidechain them easily...
Apart from that, using a sidechain input to modulate whatever EXS parameters provides endless fun. I wouldn't happen to know about any other sampler being able to do this.

Finally, I would really like to know about proper OMF export (from Logic 5.5.1/PC that is). Seems as if I tried just about everything, the result has always been garbage.

[beej]

and for all the 'you're all fanboys' comments.. I don't see any list of freeware plugins yet that are all 'way better' than their logic counter parts. Can we finally have a list then maybe? you know, to shut us up and all

And don't forget that the list *has* to be cross-platform, Mac & PC, so us Logic users who use it on PC's and Mac's can transport our projects without problems.

Ok, so can Logic plugins be replaced by alternatives? Of course? You'd have a hard time to replace all of them with free plugins that are much better ("kill" was your word, I think), but I'm sure with a lot of effort, knowledge of the plugin world, lots of downloading, installing, testing and uninstalling, comparing plugs etc, you could probably end up with some kind of reasonable compromise.

The point is, you buy Logic, you don't have to do all that work and effort, you can get straight on with working on songs, with a good selection of plugins straight away. It's definitely a plus point on the feature list, don't you think?

In fact, if I was forced to, I could happily work with the Logic plugs alone, although I would miss the Waves Ren compressors and Doubler (that's one Logic could do with, actually - "Ensemble" isn't quite the same...)

Anyway, who really cares. Logic, Cubendo, Fruity Live Sonar Orion yada yada yada. Go write some feckin' songs!

[derek]

@sal:

you dont think the fishfillets are better than logics dynamics? we will have to agree to disagree then - something i dont have a problem with, you know...

yes, the listed bundles cover a good 80% imo - its all the basic processing, filtering, dynamics & transient shaping, modulation and delay effects plus a good bundle of speci a lists already a la autotune etc. since you left out space designer (the only other plug worth mentioning *in my opinion*, guess you simply forgot about it since you otherwise were so much into it to even list such highlights as the pitchshifter or the stereo and tape delay) and since high numbers seem to impress here to a certain degree, ill throw in sir, the mda plugs, say 1/10th of the 8358938 delay spec i alist plugins out there and that guitar suite bundle of which i always forget the name off, yet still think the sound is much much better than the amp simulator in logic, which looks very nice but sounds very bad - to my ears, that is. there you go - a mighty list of fx plugins much longer than logics, with everything from the bread and butter to weird specia lists and fancy goodies like vocoding or pitchtracking oscillators. not all of it high end, i.e. the mda plugins are equally old and basic as many of logics plugs, but since listing vintage digital plugins seems to be appropriate... :-)
thats me limiting myself to bundles i know the names of from the top of my head, im too far away from my daw to find out the names of the many other highlights such as the incredible multiband dynamics plugin with internal m/s processing and a parameter set i always wanted the waves c4 to have. Just discovered it recently and am still absolutely amazed. you can find stuff like this that, yes, "kills", in almost any category if you look hard enough. the stuff out there IS that good. repeat procedure for sound generators (as we all know theres even more of those on kvr than effects, i lost track a long time ago).

still dont get my point? you know what, ill give you this, since judging a plugins sound is obviously so highly subjective that you prefer logics dynamics over the fish fillets - lets just say that the list is easily replacable, and me liking many of the free plugs better than logics plugs (or many commercial plugs that i bought, for that matter), thats just me. ok? and this btw is all pretending that other hosts have NO plugins at all, which of course isnt true. does logic have the walddorf a1, the monologue synth and that pad thingy, does it come with the funky thereminish multifx unit, all the funky timesynced sfx, does it have magneto, spl, the much better steinberg leslie simulator etc? or does it have the fine dynamics of samplitude that imo are up there with universal audios DSP stuff? no it doesnt. but plugins are just not a big deal anymore, and steinbergs cool leslie btw is from mda if i remember correctly and can be had with everything minus the fancy interface (one could say its better integrated ;-) for free.

still no idea what im trying to say here? then i cant help it.

@jens: youre indeed so cool that im not worthy talking to you, so i wont :-)

@barbarossa: nah, logic users are usually all very nice and calm and patient people. they HAVE to be with that kind of audio editing ;-)

@ttoz: sure you can produce with just the logic plugs. You can do it equally good (or, in my personal opinion, even better) with the awesome freeware thats out there these days. Thats my whole point. Disagree?

@spaceman: thank you for dropping the "you probably know shit about logic" attitude so quickly. Mentioning my experience was in no way meant to imply that my experience is somehow better than anyone elses. It was just a reply to the remarks stating that i had "not even one day of logic 5.x experience" or so, which came from you if i remember correctly. For the rest, see reply to sal.

@ forum software: the word s p e c i a l i s t is not spam, stupid algorithm :-)

[beej]

or does it have the fine dynamics of samplitude that imo are up there with universal audios DSP stuff?

If I'm correct, the dynamics in Samplitude are refinements of Sascha E's Fish Fillets code - good yes, I like the Fish Fillet stuff a lot (haven't played with Samplitude, so I don't know how much better they are) - but they certainly aren't "up there" with the UAD stuff, not even close. (In my opinion, of course.)

Do you own a UAD-1, by any chance?

nah, logic users are usually all very nice and calm and patient people. they HAVE to be with that kind of audio editing

Hehe - maybe they're just mostly phenomenally talented musicians who can play great and so don't *have* to microedit everything they play...

That definitely describes me... er...

[derek]

If I'm correct, the dynamics in Samplitude are refinements of Sascha E's Fish Fillets code - good yes, I like the Fish Fillet stuff a lot (haven't played with Samplitude, so I don't know how much better they are) - but they certainly aren't "up there" with the UAD stuff, not even close. (In my opinion, of course.)

Do you own a UAD-1, by any chance?

three, actually. can we stop the snob attitude now? yes, the fish fillets arent quite up there with the uad, allthough they are pretty close and for some applications (i.e. "painting" evil attacks in enveloper style on top of snares) sometimes better than say the uad ureis.
but i talked about the samplitude plugs, as you can see in the sentence you just quoted.

the updated stuff in samplitude in my opinion is indeed up there with the uad. im kinda surprised that you feel you can comment on that even though youve never heard it. sascha is pretty genious, credit where credit is due.

[beej]

three, actually. can we stop the snob attitude now?

Wow, snob indeed! I was asking, as a lot of people quote the anti-UAD party line without direct reference, so that's cool.

but i talked about the samplitude plugs, as you can see in the sentence you just quoted.

I did, which is why I quoted that, and pointed out that although I knew the FF stuff, I didn't know how much better the Samplitude stuff was in relation - I assumed it was better (hence my use of "refinement") but I wasn't comenting on the stufff I don't know, and quite clearly clarifying my opinions.

the updated stuff in samplitude in my opinion is indeed up there with the uad.

Fair enough - I don't have (again, as I mentioned) direct experience with the Samplitude versions. I know they are generally fairly highly regarded, is all, I know they are based on the FF code but I'm sure improved, and that's what I was making my comments based on.

im kinda surprised that you feel you can comment on that even though youve never heard it. sascha is pretty genious, credit where credit is due.

Once again, I think I've been pretty clear on this now. But repeat it a few more times, please...

[Sascha Franck]

So, derek, what about the plugins I mentioned?
And what about the OMF export trick?

[Kingston]

I know they are based on the FF code but I'm sure improved, and that's what I was making my comments based on.

There a massive difference between "made by the same coder" and "based on the same code". Remember there's more than 5 years between them.

Just so you don't go making illogical assumptions.

[Sascha Franck]

Btw, which Steinberg Leslie are you talking about, derek? Can't find any in my SX plugins list...

[derek]

Hehe - maybe they're just mostly phenomenally talented musicians who can play great and so don't *have* to microedit everything they play... :D

That definitely describes me... er... :scared: :dog:

hehe :-) know the old joke? "what did people use before there was pro tools?" "...pros." :-)

anyway, go ahead and argue in favour of sucky audio editing. that would make my day ;-)

oh and btw of course the list would not have to be crossplatform, when we compare it to something where even the host isnt crossplatform.


oh, and since someone asked about OMFs from logic that work in other hosts: the price to pay is the bit resolution. take omf2, include the data, set it to 16bit (sad but true), choose dithering as you see fit. also make sure that all tracks are unmuted and somehow connected to the audio engine (why logic insists on that for offline functions is beyond me), and dont share tracks - otherwise you might get the feared "incomplete omf from logic" syndrome. its usually a good idea to have a template project where thats all nicely setup (reminder to adjust the projects tempo before dragging any files into it).

opens in nuendo and protools. havent tested any others.

[beej]

There a massive difference between "made by the same coder" and "based on the same code". Remember there's more than 5 years between them.

Just so you don't go making illogical assumptions.

Yeah, from what I knew, it was "a refinement of the same code", but that could be incorrect - hence I wasn't stating it as a matter of fact (the "If I'm correct" bit of my post)

In any case, assuming the samplitude/UAD comment was correct, there would have to be a big difference between FF & Samplitude, because the FF stuff falls a long way short of the UAD stuff in my experience.

But anyway, I don't wanna hijack the thread. As you were...

[Kingston]

Well sascha (the coder) himself states Fish Fillets as "sins of the youth"... so go figure if he has completely redone and redesigned them.