Sonar 6 information is available now.

[gnu23]

Having been "locked in" to the upgrade cycle since the DOS days of Cakewalk, I've seen some solid upgrades, and some...well, not so much.

S6 looks good to me. ACT, resolution of the VST issue, and the solid addons make this a must for me. I ordered as soon as I read the news here on KvR and browsed the S6 pages at cakewalk.com

On a sidenote, I speculate the VST issue was originally sourced in the DXi vs VST "standards" of some years ago. Cakewalk pushed DXi, Steinberg pushed VST, and the majority of the developers chose the better of the two - VST. "DXi" always meant "works only in Cakewalk" to me, while "VST" meant "works anywhere". I like the "works anywhere" alternative a lot better.

Kudos to Cakewalk on what appears to be a good upgrade in S6. I am looking forward to receiving my copy.

[No name]

Something I cannot find on the website. I've been thinking of purchasing Sonar 6 SE sometime within the next few months, but I fail to find an anwser to an important question. I cannot seem to find any info on how many computers you could have your version of Sonar installed on. I have a desktop and laptop, and it is important that I can use my laptop, Sonar, and my Korg TR. I also need it on my DAW as it's where I do the majority of my music at too. Anybody know how the license works?

[aMUSEd]

"DXi" always meant "works only in Cakewalk" to me, while "VST" meant "works anywhere". I like the "works anywhere" alternative a lot better.

I'd slightly rephrase that as "DXi" always meant "works only in Cakewalk" but gets everywhere, while "VST" meant "works anywhere" but only when you want it to

[No name]

Oh yea, and my thoughts on this update.

Native VST support was a deal breaker for me, you guys got me with that one! No dongle and native VST support, the guys at cakewalk seem to be the only ones on the job anymore!

[headquest]

@headquest:

I can't find the list of supported hardware for live, could you give me a hint where could it be?

Hi soulata

There is a list on the Ableton 6 site announcement under "Important Improvements". However, unlike Cakewalk they have not made this a headline feature, and have remained relatively low key about it compared to other big feature improvements/additions.

As the info on the site is, I think, already out of date, here is the list they give in Live 6.0b13, where they have the usual "what's new" on-screen tutorials:

Live 6 integrates instant mapping for many popular control surfaces. With no manual setup, control surfaces instantly link to whichever instrument/effect/rack is currently selected in Live. Multiple surfaces can be locked to specific devices. Instant mappings are planned for:

* Akai MPD24
* Alesis Photon X25, X49
* Behrenger BCR, BCF, UMX25, 49, 61
* CME VX 5,6,7,8, UF 5,6,7,8
* Korg microKONTROL, KONTROL 49
* M-Audio Oxygen 8, Oxygen 8v2, Oxygen 49, 61, O2, Radium 49, 61, Ozone, Ozonic, Axiom 25, 49, 61, Keystation 88 Pro, Trigger Finger, ProjectMix
* Novation ReMOTE 49, 61, ReMOTE LE X25, 49. 61, ReMOTE SE 25, 37, 61, ReMOTE ZeRO XL

I know from the beta test forum that they have certainly also already included the Evolution UC33e (which is really a no-brainer, as so many Live users have one of them and they were marketed as a bundle!).

I hope this helps!

[headquest]

Has anybody used/heard this algorithm in use and if so, how does it compare with say Ableton Live's/FL Studio (Z-Plane) and Melodyne ?

On the evidence of the audio samples posted by Cakewalk on their site and those on Izotope, I would say it is fairly similar in quality to Live/FL timestretch (which means not on the same level as Melodynne, although that is a different beast and should probably be compared more with V-Vocal). I look forward to trying it on my own material though.

Also, is this a real time algorithm ?

From what we have seen so far it does not look like this would work in real time for loop preview, instant stretching, etc. It looks like a process from all the screenshots and text given. In any case, Sonar does not have a gapless audio engine in the same way that Ableton and Podium do.

(The iZotope web site doesn't have very convincing samples)

Quite.

[headquest]

Could you at least route audio freely? E.g. that you can route any and all audio channels to other audio channels, without resorting to making group channels.

That would be nice because then we could use folder tracks to deal on-screen with the incoming mono Rewire channels and re-route within the folder. There is nothing mentioned about more flexible routing in Sonar 6, and the existing routing is certainly limited compared to Live, Tracktion, etc.

[Jason Brian Merrill]

"Sonar does not have a gapless audio engine in the same way that Ableton and Podium do. "
what does this have to do with time stretching?

[headquest]

On a sidenote, I speculate the VST issue was originally sourced in the DXi vs VST "standards" of some years ago. Cakewalk pushed DXi, Steinberg pushed VST, and the majority of the developers chose the better of the two - VST. "DXi" always meant "works only in Cakewalk" to me, while "VST" meant "works anywhere". I like the "works anywhere" alternative a lot better.

I don't think that is a totally true history. In fact the majority of Windows music software chose DX, and NOT VST.

DX was the chosen plugin standard not only for the full Cakewalk line but also for Sound Forge, Cool Edit / Audition, FL Studio, Acid, Vegas, and early on there were some very impressive DX plugins developed. At that point it was mostly Cubase and Logic that pushed the VST format. VST had the advantage of being cross platform, which was the appeal to those developers.

Once newer programs such as Live and Tracktion came along over the last five years or so, with VST and not DX appeal, the balance started to shift. One by one the various programs previously committed to DX have caved in to the commercial weight that VST now has.

[headquest]

"Sonar does not have a gapless audio engine in the same way that Ableton and Podium do. "
what does this have to do with time stretching?

It has nothing to do with timestretching as a process, but a lot to do with timestretching in "Real Time", which was the question I was responding to.

[Jason Brian Merrill]

"Sonar does not have a gapless audio engine in the same way that Ableton and Podium do. "
what does this have to do with time stretching?

It has nothing to do with timestretching as a process, but a lot to do with timestretching in "Real Time", which was the question I was responding to.

acid seems to do this just fine and doesnt have a "gapless audio engine" -- ???

[Vonbrucken]

oh i thought his signature was blocked
that's too bad

[Jason Brian Merrill]

oh i thought his signature was blocked
that's too bad

problem?

[headquest]

"Sonar does not have a gapless audio engine in the same way that Ableton and Podium do. "
what does this have to do with time stretching?

It has nothing to do with timestretching as a process, but a lot to do with timestretching in "Real Time", which was the question I was responding to.

acid seems to do this just fine and doesnt have a "gapless audio engine" -- ???

Perhaps we're talkikng about different things?

I know that in ACID you can preview timestretched loops at the project tempo, but that is not what I interpreted the questioner meant by "real time", so if I'm on a different page I appologise...

However, to me, "real time" is about being able to drop an audio loop/clip into a project at a different tempo and launch it, with the timestretch applied in "real time" spontaneously without an audio dropout.

Neither ACID nor SONAR are intended for that, in terms of stage or live jamming use by musicians.

[puffer]

On a sidenote, I speculate the VST issue was originally sourced in the DXi vs VST "standards" of some years ago. Cakewalk pushed DXi, Steinberg pushed VST, and the majority of the developers chose the better of the two - VST. "DXi" always meant "works only in Cakewalk" to me, while "VST" meant "works anywhere". I like the "works anywhere" alternative a lot better.

I don't think that is a totally true history. In fact the majority of Windows music software chose DX, and NOT VST.

DX was the chosen plugin standard not only for the full Cakewalk line but also for Sound Forge, Cool Edit / Audition, FL Studio, Acid, Vegas, and early on there were some very impressive DX plugins developed. At that point it was mostly Cubase and Logic that pushed the VST format. VST had the advantage of being cross platform, which was the appeal to those developers.

Once newer programs such as Live and Tracktion came along over the last five years or so, with VST and not DX appeal, the balance started to shift. One by one the various programs previously committed to DX have caved in to the commercial weight that VST now has.

Indeed, I remember when you could use DXi in a lot of programs; I imagine the stock Sony (SF) effects are still more DXi than VST.

But what really needs to happen is that independent developers & interested larger companies need to get together and agree on an open-source cross-platform plugin standard. It doesn't have to replace VST, AU or DXi but rather compliment it; one would hope, as it gains strength it could slowly overtake those standards. The plugins themselves can still be closed, with all the restrictions & dongles devs want to bog them down with, but the development kit would be open to a team of developers and public beta testers. I truly believe, if there was a viable alternative to VST et at we would see plugins filling that market.

Anyway, re: Sonar specifically: Keep in mind, those of you who are disappointed that things didn't make it into this iteration of Sonar, the point releases for Sonar have in the past offered a few new features in addition to the bug crushing. From the sound of it, these fixes are imminent.