Sonar 6 information is available now.

[Jason Brian Merrill]

Regarding SONAR 6 & Native VST Support, I was kinda skeptical about it, as SONAR 5 claimed Native VST Support, although it was more integrated, into SONAR, it still ultimately required an external VST adapter. I just read this post, from a Cakewalk rep that finally clarifies it for me. SONAR 6 does have true Native VST Support and even VST customization capabilties:

All our VST support is now directly built in to the application itself as of SONAR 6.
What this means is we no longer use an adapter that registers VST plugins as DX plugins. When SONAR 6 scans for VST's on your system, VST's will no longer show up in your other DirectX applications.
Some other enhancements I can think of
- Scanning for VST's can be done within SONAR itself without requiring a restart.
- You can categorize your VST's in menus or submenus any way you want.
- Simplified access to VST presets


_____________________________

Noel Borthwick
Cakewalk

That makes the upgrade even more enticing.

and it makes so much more sense. Glad they joined the 21st century

[Jason Brian Merrill]

As far as I'm concerned ACID 6 must have gapless audio because I can edit my song while it plays back.

Can you also load, tweak and delete VST effects in the middle of an audio recording without dropouts, clicks, pops, etc? If so that is way ahead of SONAR and more like Ableton Live.

I know in samplitude, during recording you can do nearly anything without a glitch.

what does gapless audio do again?

[Jason Brian Merrill]

"Frits 'Zynewave' Nilsen wrote:

The gapless performance of Podium was not intended only for live use. To me its an obvious enhancement that all users will find useful. If implemented properly it comes at no cost in terms of performance. As an example; say you have a track with a compressor and you want to compare it with another compressor while playback is going on. You drop in the second compressor instead of the first one, and press undo/redo repeatedly to swap the two plugins and compare the sound. I want to be able to do that with as little disturbance in the audio output as possible.
"

......

ok, so it seems like it has more to do with inserting and replacing vst/vsti --- not timestretching or editing....

so, i can see this point for gapless audio, although it still doesnt seem that valuable to me, and my current host deals very well with undo/redo during playback

but i wont mention it, cause, you know, id be like, advertising or something.

[headquest]

nobody "put me right" about gapless audio.

Oh dear - you obviously weren't paying attention.

(although certainly, the meaning attempted to be clarified)

Fritz/Zynewave gave you a much better technical explanation that I could, in spite of your trolling on that thread. Perhaps you should go back and read it again. Not just the one you quoted, but the rest too. He nailed it on the head. It is not about previewing loops as you have been implying. It encompasses using, inserting, editing, etc VST/DX plugs without audio dropouts either in the studio or on stage. "Real Time" timestretching links into that, as illustrated by the fact that in Sonar if I follow the test you suggested I get - guess what?! - an audio gap!

2 people in this thread already have posted on how they can modify and edit things just fine.

In ACID, I assume you mean? But really we're trying to talk about SONAR here, not ACID and not REAPER either. In SONAR you cannot load stuff in the way we were talking about, and the reason for that is that SONAR's audio engine is not gapless - i.e. you get gaps. Is it really that hard for you to understand Jason? Edit stuff while the engine is running and you will get gaps - in SONAR, which it seems is a program you don't own and only have a passing interest in on the evidence of this thread.

All i debated on that thread was that pdc and gapless audio seemed, by nature, to conflict. And I was right.

No you weren't. Fritz pointed out that Podium's gapless audio reads ahead to prevent latency/PDC issues conflicting with its gapless audio engine. In the case of Live there are presently issues with its PDC implementation which cause very minor glitches if you add plugins with high latency during the audio engine running. The issue is with Live's PDC though, not the gapless audio engine. And Ableton are planning something *big* and very innovative in this area for Live 7

so what exactly does "gapless audio" do again?

Go read what Zynewave said yet again. No, really!

I can tell you're basically a tenacious guy who is determined to prove yourself right, but you actually made a fool of yourself on a technical level on that other thread before it was locked by the moderators. You are poised very close to doing the same again here. The difference is that this time you really are completely Off Topic. If you are insistent on proving that you don;t understand much about gapless audio or audio engines in general, why not start a seperate thread, and let the rest of us discuss the improvements in Sonar 6?

[Kalamata Kid]

Yes, Sonar 6 look great! I am not sure if my main concerns have been addressed:

That energyXT will work inside Sonar 6.

Is there a midi editor similar to the Cubase Logical Editor, Transformer and Input Transformer. Not that I am happy with these but at least they do work. Midi editing was so flexible and simple in the good old Cadenza of yesteryear.

Is Cal still functional in Sonar 6?

Can anyone help me here?

[whyterabbyt]

That energyXT will work inside Sonar 6.

EnergyXT has been working in Sonar for a very long time already.

[Jason Brian Merrill]

@headquest...

im not trying to "prove" myself right, and i wasnt "Trolling" in that "other" thread. nice try. I think I have made the points i needed to make, and they were regarding "gapless audio" in relation to Sonar .... I was bringing up the examples of other hosts, and how they basically already have many of those functions, and it *seems* "Gapless audio" only really contains a small improvement on audio engines.

If anything, i was asking for further clarification, but all i get is attacked, and vague explaination, and reference to another thread describing it, which i have already read thank you.

"made a fool of yourself on a technical level"

perhaps you can PM me how i did this, since it is off topic here. But if you wish, why not use this thread?

its up to you.

[D-Fusion]

That energyXT will work inside Sonar 6.

I use Energy XT in Sonar 5.2 without any problems (Just make sure that you use the latest beta).

Not sure if cal is in Sonar 6, but it is still here in V5.2 (Just hit ctrl+F1)

[headquest]

... it *seems* "Gapless audio" only really contains a small improvement on audio engines.

If anything, i was asking for further clarification...

As somebody who is not used to working in a host that basically has gapless audio, I can see why you would think the difference it makes is "small"...

...but perhaps you could at least take my word for it that if you ARE used to working in a host that basically has gapless audio, going *back* to one that doesn't seems really like... well, a big step backwards.

As a musician I have definitely become used to being able to do all sorts of musical stuff *in real time* while the audio engine is running. Working in an environment where I get gaps in the audio when I do stuff genuinely takes me by suprise these days.

I do love Sonar as a production environment, but the audio engine really bugs me now, because my expectations these days are higher than they were pre-Ableton. I hope it is better than Sonar 5 has been. Not only does it "gap" frequently, it also loses touch of my audio interface and miscalculates sample rates, etc... very odd at times in fact, and for no apparent reason it decides a sample rate is wrong and refuses to play at all until I reboot!! Stuff like that just NEVER happens in Live.

Oh, and as for the rest of your bait, I'm not going to bite

[Kalamata Kid]

whyterrabbyt and D-Fusion,

Thanks for the good news that energyXT has been working fine in Sonar at least in the newer version.

Anyone please help me with this:
I am trying to see if Sonar 6 will serve my need more than Cubase SX3. I love midi fx and editing midi so if you could let me know and sorry for the repeat question but is there a midi editor similar to the Cubase Logical Editor, Transformer and Input Transformer. Not that I am happy with these but at least they do work. Midi editing was so flexible and simple in the good old Cadenza of yesteryear.

Also it would be nice to confirm that Cal still functional in Sonar 6?

BTW are the Cubase 3 included MFX proprietary or can the be used in Sonar 6?

[Jason Brian Merrill]

... it *seems* "Gapless audio" only really contains a small improvement on audio engines.

If anything, i was asking for further clarification...

As somebody who is not used to working in a host that basically has gapless audio, I can see why you would think the difference it makes is "small"...

...but perhaps you could at least take my word for it that if you ARE used to working in a host that basically has gapless audio, going *back* to one that doesn't seems really like... well, a big step backwards.

As a musician I have definitely become used to being able to do all sorts of musical stuff *in real time* while the audio engine is running. Working in an environment where I get gaps in the audio when I do stuff genuinely takes me by suprise these days.

I do love Sonar as a production environment, but the audio engine really bugs me now, because my expectations these days are higher than they were pre-Ableton. I hope it is better than Sonar 5 has been. Not only does it "gap" frequently, it also loses touch of my audio interface and miscalculates sample rates, etc... very odd at times in fact, and for no apparent reason it decides a sample rate is wrong and refuses to play at all until I reboot!! Stuff like that just NEVER happens in Live.

Oh, and as for the rest of your bait, I'm not going to bite

sounds like your host has alot of other problems besides not having "gapless audio" and its quite obvious the reason you wont bite is because you have nothing

[headquest]

sounds like your host has alot of other problems besides not having "gapless audio"

My main host is Ableton Live 5 (well, 6.0b13 at present) and I have no problems with it at all. But yes, I do have a few occasional problems with Sonar that are odd, basically.

and its quite obvious the reason you wont bite is because you have nothing

No, it's because its all been said to you several time before, by me and by far better and more expert people than me. But you don't want to hear it, so why should I bother wasting my time.

Truth is, most regulars here at KVR recognise you for exactly what you are - a very blinkered REAPER fanboy who can't resist joining in every thread possible to personally piss on other hosts and their users. You feign interest, but actually you are only ever on the lookout for stuff to criticise and justify your own ignorant viewpoint. We all know you wouldn't touch Sonar in a million years now that REAPER has revolutionised sequencer workflow with its advanced quantise functions.

So why the hell don't you piss off and let Sonar users discuss a subject in which we have a genuine interest? Perhaps you could go and make some music in REAPER seeing as you love it so much If you can't show anyone else genuine respect, why expect us to dignify your constant trolling by responding at all? I've seen lots of people here say it - some politely, other less so. But you are so thick skinned that however blunt people are with you, it's like water off a ducks back.

[Jason Brian Merrill]

How have i not shown you respect? Im not just into reaper, I actually havent bought a licsence, and use basically use FLstudio and Samplitude, although REAPER is certainly coming along. I did consider sonar at one time, but the vst implementation made me sick -- which is why i contributed my thoughts to this thread, because I may consider switching again

"personally piss on other hosts"

i wasnt pissing on any hosts...



"If you can't show anyone else genuine respect"

where have I done this?

I think you people are way too sensitive.

"We all know you wouldn't touch Sonar in a million years now that REAPER has revolutionised sequencer workflow with its advanced quantise functions"

so, who's "pissing on hosts" now?

I think yall need to calm the heck down

[Muff Wiggler]

where's that 'please god make it stop' image??

[Jason Brian Merrill]

where's that 'please god make it stop' image??

indeed



found another one here but it didnt fit
http://www.vadv.org/secProjects/pleasegod_large.jpg