KVR Audio

odo · Post by **odo** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:38 pm

i realy don't understand why you pay almost 800 for a host
i think your paying only for the name steinberg
look at ext for what 50 ?

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:41 pm

odo wrote:i realy don't understand why you pay almost 800 for a host
i think your paying only for the name steinberg
look at ext for what 50 ?

Odo...

Haven't you been around long enough to not troll for host wars?

HanafiH · Post by **HanafiH** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:48 pm

odo · Post by **odo** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:54 pm

bduffy wrote:
odo wrote:i realy don't understand why you pay almost 800 for a host
i think your paying only for the name steinberg
look at ext for what 50 ?
Odo...

Haven't you been around long enough to not troll for host wars?

no but the $$$ for a host

little bit to much
there are even good host for free
but still i the the name steinberg thats why you pay so much

i don't say that it's bad !!!!!!!!!!!
and if people want to spent so much it's there choise

but not me

Majken · Post by **Majken** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:56 pm

HanafiH:
Awww, that's so cute and smart. You've learned how to use google image. You go girl!

/Majken

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:11 pm

odo wrote:
bduffy wrote:
odo wrote:i realy don't understand why you pay almost 800 for a host
i think your paying only for the name steinberg
look at ext for what 50 ?
Odo...

Haven't you been around long enough to not troll for host wars?
no but the $$$ for a host
little bit to much
there are even good host for free
but still i the the name steinberg thats why you pay so much
i don't say that it's bad !!!!!!!!!!!
and if people want to spent so much it's there choise
but not me

Well, odo, I was thinking about this, and let me put some perspective on it. When I first started at this job, in 2000, we needed a multitrack studio solution that could handle everything from recording voice over, to MIDI composing and 5.1 mixing. The number of hosts that could do that, on a PC, on a small budget, in 2000: Nuendo. There were no $50 hosts that could handle that then, and if there were, I sure hadn't heard about it.

So anyway, I learn Nuendo, get into the mixer, the EQ's on every channel, VSTi's, all that nice stuff, and I'm sold. So I pick up Cubase, and now I'm six years into using these programs, and at this point, I don't care if a programs costs 2 cents, it's not what I'm used to using - and I have to be able to edit very, very quickly for my job - so I'm not about to pick up something that may or may not have the features I need, and go through the painful process of learning, just to save a few dollars. The upgrades aren't that expensive for me anyway.

Make sense?

That being said, I'm going to buy ext, because it's a wicked-cool app and can be used in SX to extend its possibilities.

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:20 pm

Well said bduffy, your host is the most important part of the studio, your going to spend the same amount on an audio card. Truthfully, comparing ext / Reaper to Cubase is unfair, Cubase has a huge featureset and is a very very deep program. Every single time I want to do something I haven't before, Cubase has always been able to do it. Let alone the full scoring capabilities, professional quality time stretching, surround mixing, video syncronisation, audio editing power very similar to standalone audio editors ... in truth ... Cubase is a bargain. The only program that beats it for price / feature value is probably Logic Audio.

If you check out Protools where you get no advanced MIDI features like scoring, but get only good audio features, you'll see how cheap Cubase really is.

For most working folks, buying Cubase is about 2 weeks worth of work at a normal pay job, 2 weeks to obtain the host you will use for all audio productions, not bad at all

I'm still an ext fan too though, but I feel it's workflow isn't as quick as Cubase when using it as a full host. Still ... it's a very neat little program and I'm always keen to see what develops next because it's only a new program which hasn't been around for long. Maybe in 2 - 3 years, it will have a larger featureset than Cubase and we will all be using it

I hope so...

Just my opinion
Fots

Kingston · Post by **Kingston** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:18 am

odo wrote:and if people want to spent so much it's there choise
but not me

you're free to come teach me how to replace cubase with something like ext.

I'm afraid I'll just laugh in your face though.

no offense, but there's a few levels (read decades) of workflow design and feature sets to cross.

pretty much the same thing with logic 7.

Improv · Post by **Improv** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:28 am

odo wrote:i realy don't understand why you pay almost 800 for a host
i think your paying only for the name steinberg
look at ext for what 50 ?

Many people get into Cubase and upgrade gradually. I started out with Cubase SL 1.x, then got the upgrade to Cubase SX 2.x, and soon will look at upgrading to SX 4. Very, very few pay a full $800. For example, the current SX2 --> SX3 upgrade is only $200.
Add the learning already done and many have no reason to switch hosts. The same goes for users of other major Daw programs such as ProTools, Logic, Cubase,etc...

I'll also let you in on a secret-Cubase users can and do use eXT, Chainer, Phazor,etc AS WELL AS Cubase. These small hosts do come in a vsti version! So any useful features in eXT and the others are available to Cubase users as well.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:41 am

Regarding the pricing of Cubase (and any *major* host for the matter), I don't think they cost too much. You should always think about the sheer amount of possibilities they're offering.
Sure, you may not need them. If all you do is some tracking and mixing of your own ideas, Energy XT (which I deeply love, btw) might fulfill all your needs.
But then, does it have OMF support? It doesn't. As said, you may not need it, but personally I've been faced with the need to exchange stuff between DAWs quite often.
Does it offer video syncing? Well, you can probably come up with a workaround, but in a professional environment workarounds aren't anything you're going to deal with.
Does it offer a more or less fullblown score editor (competing with Sibelius, Finale and the likes)? Not at all.
Reaper might probably be more like it, but I'm afraid it doesn't offer any of the mentioned features either (which have only been those coming to my mind right now - let's not even talk about the MIDI editing).

As said, if you only work as a hobbyist or demo-tracking dude, if you only need to get one sort of job done, it's all fine with those cheaper hosts.
But in a professional environment you *need* further options as well - such as score printout ("Oh, we have that string quartet here today, can you quickly print our rough MIDI layout for them?"), such as OMF support ("Hey, I have a PT session, can I come to your studio with it?" - "Sure, just export an OMF and a MIDI file"), such as video support ("Love your music, what about you doing a quick TV commercial backing?"), etc etc.

I can very well imagine that implementing these things is taking up a LOT of manpower. Manpower that you gotta pay for. Really, it's that simple.
And it's the very reason why I would never reccomend a fullblown SX, Nuendo or whatever host version to any beginner. There's those cheaper hosts and there's feature-reduced versions of almost any big host as well - all probably doing the job just as well for any starter.

Whether one likes Cubase, Logic, PT, Samplitude, Sonar and whatever is an entirely different issue.

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:47 pm

And don't forget that there's also Cubase SE3 which still offers more functionality than most cheaper hosts and doesn't cost much at all.

Cheers
Fots

Bill OC · Post by **Bill OC** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:49 pm

You know, we use the word "host" because that is the terminology traditionally used here.

But "just a host" can really belittle the wide range of DAW/Sequencing (and now, notation programs) that can "host" VSTi's.

Using Cubase as the example being discussed, whether one likes the program or not, it *is* one of the the powerhouse DAW/Sequencing programs, and is positioned correctly in the market pricing structure, IMHO.

Regards,

Bill

Improv · Post by **Improv** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:33 pm

Bill OC wrote:You know, we use the word "host" because that is the terminology traditionally used here.

But "just a host" can really belittle the wide range of DAW/Sequencing (and now, notation programs) that can "host" VSTi's.

Using Cubase as the example being discussed, whether one likes the program or not, it *is* one of the the powerhouse DAW/Sequencing programs, and is positioned correctly in the market pricing structure, IMHO.

Regards,

Bill

My gawd Bill-between your posts and Sashcha's post we seem to have an outbreak of sanity here! Can' t have that here at kvr!

As the old saying goes, 'Use the tool that does the job'
(About the only thing simpler than that is me on a Saturday morning before my 2nd cup of coffee! )

Bill OC · Post by **Bill OC** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:20 pm

I get these attacks of clear thinking every now and again. I'm starting to get concerned, and will see if my doctor can give me something for them.

Regards,

Bill

Improv · Post by **Improv** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:40 pm

Bill OC wrote:I get these attacks of clear thinking every now and again. I'm starting to get concerned, and will see if my doctor can give me something for them.

Regards,

Bill

Have some milk and cookies and have a mid day nap-works for me!

Trust me, when I wake up, I'm bright eyed and muddle headed as ever...I think.

Cubase 4 advert !