KVR Audio

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:54 am

Oh thats very nice, hope I found time today to test the new features

I will (must!) buy this EQ

But of course there was some small bugs but I think this is fixed now. Sadly I have not so much time this days for making music

Fabrice, does the synchrosoft demo-activation key be renewed for a new version? Or is there no chance if demoed an earlier version and the timelimit was over? I'm not sure, but I think my timelimit ends in 10 days or so. If this is true, I hope that I find some time the next days before the demotime its over.

On your site I cannot find something about the introductory discount. Is this not planned for this version (1.1) or not updated yet?

Eiosis · Post by **Eiosis** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:04 pm

4damind wrote:Oh thats very nice, hope I found time today to test the new features I will (must!) buy this EQ But of course there was some small bugs but I think this is fixed now. Sadly I have not so much time this days for making music

There is no more known bugs for the moment, but if you have any, write us about it !
Hope that you'll find some time to make music, I use AirEQ in my mixes and it I found it greater than expected in real mixing situations !!

4damind wrote:Fabrice, does the synchrosoft demo-activation key be renewed for a new version? Or is there no chance if demoed an earlier version and the timelimit was over? I'm not sure, but I think my timelimit ends in 10 days or so. If this is true, I hope that I find some time the next days before the demotime its over.

No, I believe that the dongled demo verion is not renewed for the new version. Happily you could test it with the non dongled version, but it is not as convenient. But now with the new version, you can check out the presets with some tracks or in a mastering situation. Believe me, it is very useful !!

4damind wrote:On your site I cannot find something about the introductory discount. Is this not planned for this version (1.1) or not updated yet?

We have lauched a introduction offer for the version 1.1, but since the news are not published on KVR, here it is :

AirEQ-intro-offer

Just enter this code on the checkout page, until September 22, and you'll get a 20% discount on AirEQ.

Fabrice,
Eliosound

Arksun · Post by **Arksun** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:04 pm

Question regarding dongle, if we have a syncrosoft dongle already (in my case for Cubase SX 3) will this plug still require an additional dongle, or can this steinberg dongle also be used for this eq?

kilroy · Post by **kilroy** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:32 pm

I'm curious...why, assuming that all filter gain on this EQ is represented in conventional db units, do the perceived gains, in fact, sound to be in exess of those indicated?

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:22 pm

Arksun wrote:Question regarding dongle, if we have a syncrosoft dongle already (in my case for Cubase SX 3) will this plug still require an additional dongle, or can this steinberg dongle also be used for this eq?

I can answer this: you can either use your Cubase dongle or the one that comes with AirEQ. I have AirEQ licensed on the Syncrosoft Dongle at work, and I use the seperate one at home.

kilroy · Post by **kilroy** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:31 am

Right then...I'm in the midst of remastering some older Bach recordings, and I've been giving this EQ a bit of a go on this material on my breaks, just for a lark. It has been a strange experience.

First off...the piano is a nice big Steinway, but whoever put the microphones up on this one did not, or simply could not, address a weird issue that initiates a resonant "sweep" most noticable round 2.5k whenever the pianist plays a scalar run crossing back and forth through this point. Of course, there are *alot* of these scalar runs...this is Bach after all. So, I am trying to kill enough of this sound to prevent it from being distracting, whilst not digging an obvious "hole" in the process of doing so.

I normally use a Waves Q10 for this type of thing...it's boring clean, does narrow notches well, and is fast to setup and work with...and, I am extremely familiar with it.

This AirEQ has me baffled, though. I set up a narrow Q at 2.5k and added a very moderate 4db of gain to check for the center of this resonance...only this sounds *waaaay* hotter than a "moderate" 4db of gain. Thinking this to be odd, I tried to duplicate the AirEQ filter with the Q10. In order to reach the same perceived level I had to apply *13.5db* of gain to the Q10 filter.

Blimey...this can't be right...

But anyroad, here are the settings I used, if anyone cares to compare. I tuned the gain and Q on the Q10 by ear to match the AirEQ filter settings, and to my ears, they sound *exact* for all practical comparisons.

AirEQ - Freq=2.5k Q=7.0 Gain=4.0db

Waves Q10 - Freq=2.5k Q=13.40 Gain=13.5db

No wonder this EQ sounded bleeding loud to me.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:43 am

I just tried this, Kilroy, and it does sounds pretty much the same!...I'll have to ask Fabrice about this, and I'm sure he'll respond tomorrow. I use AirEQ primarily for boosting, because it has such a strong character...now I'm curious now how this works.

daverich · Post by **daverich** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:23 am

I discovered the same thing comparing it with gliss EQ.

Also I found the frequency setting were different, i.e. - a 10k boost on AirEQ would equate to a 15k boost on the Gliss.

You actually could achieve a very similar sound with Gliss which in the end is why I decided not to buy AirEQ - at least not at it's current price point.

Kind regards

Dave Rich

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:43 am

Thats true! Here the frequence-response from: 2500Hz/Q7/+4dB Gain:

To become a result of 4dB gain you must set 0,9dB in AirEQ

kilroy · Post by **kilroy** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:17 pm

It gets weirder still i'm afraid.

When I spread the Q out to 1.0 the filter gain *drops* from 13.5db gain to about *half* the level it was at Q=7.0.

There's more...

I set the filter to its maximum Q width of 0.1....*now* the gain sounds to be under 5db, maybe 3db or so of peak gain at the center frequency.

Two questions then...First, suppose I really, really want a nice sensitive, narrowish 1.5db cut at say, 2.5k...how would I get that with this EQ?

And two...how can this EQ be a useful tool as long as it manifests these puzzling inconsistencies?

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:25 pm

Mmmh... May be thats a bug? Hope Fabrice can say something about this inconsistencies.

kilroy · Post by **kilroy** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:52 pm

Well, I actually thought the demo download must have been a bad or broken version, but three downloads on separate days all behaved the same. So yes, most likely bugs.

Even if this were the case, though...how in the world does something *that* obvious escape the ears of developers, beta testers, users...I mean, that does seem somewhat astounding.

kilroy · Post by **kilroy** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:58 pm

bduffy wrote:I use AirEQ primarily for boosting, because it has such a strong character....

Well, this is *definately* **the** EQ for that, mate.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:59 pm

You do know that analogue EQs behave like this? no? I'm not sure if it's that radical but a lot of analogue EQ vary a lot depending on the Q.

Cheers!
bManic

Eiosis · Post by **Eiosis** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:15 pm

kilroy wrote:First off...the piano is a nice big Steinway, but whoever put the microphones up on this one did not, or simply could not, address a weird issue that initiates a resonant "sweep" most noticable round 2.5k whenever the pianist plays a scalar run crossing back and forth through this point. Of course, there are *alot* of these scalar runs...this is Bach after all. So, I am trying to kill enough of this sound to prevent it from being distracting, whilst not digging an obvious "hole" in the process of doing so.

Did you see that AirEQ as also a Frequency as note display ? It can be very useful to fastly find which center frequency you need for resonnance removing : just find the note wich is the loudest, display freq as notes and choose the right note, then adjust the Q factor.

daverich wrote:I discovered the same thing comparing it with gliss EQ.
Also I found the frequency setting were different, i.e. - a 10k boost on AirEQ would equate to a 15k boost on the Gliss.

Strange.. Maybe because GlissEQ has a warped curve behaviour and that AirEQ has no warping in the highs, so AirEQ adds more high content with a bell boost than GlissEQ, and you may hear this difference like a center frequency difference ??

kilroy wrote:This AirEQ has me baffled, though. I set up a narrow Q at 2.5k and added a very moderate 4db of gain to check for the center of this resonance...only this sounds *waaaay* hotter than a "moderate" 4db of gain. Thinking this to be odd, I tried to duplicate the AirEQ filter with the Q10. In order to reach the same perceived level I had to apply *13.5db* of gain to the Q10 filter.

Blimey...this can't be right...

4damind wrote:Mmmh... May be thats a bug? Hope Fabrice can say something about this inconsistencies.

There is no problem or bug with AirEQ, the way you tune it is simply different from other EQs. In fact, most plugin EQs have a standard behaviour, i.e. all the displayed parameters have a direct and mathematical relationship with the filter parameters. So, it is normal that you are familiar with this kind of behaviour if you only work with digital EQs plugins.

But the problem with this behaviour, and I must admit that it is one more time a matter of taste, is that when you sweep the Q factor, there is big changes in the perceived loudness of the equalized signal.

You can try a very simple thing : take a whole mix, set a 1Khz bell boost, +15dB with Waves Q, if you are familiar with it, or another EQ. Now, sweep the Q from the larger to the narrower.
It is easy to hear the loudness variation when you sweep the Q factor.

Now, do the same thing with AirEQ : set a 1kHz bell boost, +15 dB. Sweep the Q factor. Hear the difference ? The loudness sensation remains almost the same from the narrowest to the sharper Q factor.

Why is it interesting ? Because I think that when you tune a parameter, this parameter must be coherent with what you hear, and not with "how many dBs the filter adds to the center frequency".
When I tune the Q factor, I want to hear the real effect of the Q factor, not the effect of the Q factor plus the volume variation it produces. I don't want to adjust the gain each time that I move the Q factor knob.
I find it to be more musical, more natural and more intuitive, but, again, I must admit that it is a matter of taste.

kilroy wrote:I set the filter to its maximum Q width of 0.1....*now* the gain sounds to be under 5db, maybe 3db or so of peak gain at the center frequency.
Two questions then...First, suppose I really, really want a nice sensitive, narrowish 1.5db cut at say, 2.5k...how would I get that with this EQ?

Let's take again our example with the 1kHz bell boost. Now, if you set the gain to 3dB and that you sweep the Q factor, you will hear that for narrow values, the boost can not be easily heard. In many cases, you have to raise the gain for narrow Qs (to add impact to a kick drum, remove voice strong resonnances or extra sibilance, add pitch to drum toms or snare, etc..), and to lower the gain for wide Qs (to gently change the character of an instrument or a song, for many mastering purposes, etc..).

There is a kind of dilemma here : generally speaking, you need more (real absolute gain) precision and lower gains for wide Q factors; less (real absolute) gain precision and higher gains for narrow Q factors. If you need high precision for narrow Q, that can be annoying.
Anyway, AirEQ also have a precise tuning mode, with mouse right click or Shift+Click.

kilroy wrote:And two...how can this EQ be a useful tool as long as it manifests these puzzling inconsistencies?

You have to familiarize yourself with this kind of behaviour before taking all the advantages from it. I must admit that it could seem weird when you use it for the first time, but now I personally can not work anymore with other EQs. Tuning the Q had becoming a real pain with other EQs for me, and I never succeed to get the equalization I want.

I consider that the gain display in AirEQ shows the musical units of the gain, i.e. the perceived loudness that you add to the sound, rather than mathematical units, which only relates a scientifical fact, i.e. that the bell peaks at xx dBs.

And, bmanic, you are right, many analog EQs behave like this.

Fabrice,
Eliosound

Eiosis AirEQ v1.3