KVR Audio

lunik · Post by **lunik** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:26 pm

I have a friend who is wanting to set up a DAW for the first time, and scoring/notation capabilities of the sequencer are a must. None of the hosts I use support this so I can't recommend them.

Is Cubase the gold standard for this now that Logic has departed?

Or is scoring best done is a dedicated app and then import midi files into another host?

Thanks
Lunik

dtd · Post by **dtd** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:45 pm

hi, sibelius is a dedicated application for notation. for my taste, it produces great looking prints and is good to work with, here's the link: (you'll probably recognize its style in some commercially printed scores)

http://www.sibelius.com/products/index.html

but if you not intend to produce prints, but rather notate your music, you better go with a sequencer as you'll probably not that much interested in visually good prints, right? cubase sx comes with scoring capabilities (not SL!), i don't know about the others. it's a good idea to try out the demo versions, and see which you best like.

just out of curiosity, do you have something to do with:? or are you a fan

http://www.lunik.com/

all the best,
dtd

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:52 pm

As much as I love Sonar, I wouldn't recommend it for notation work. I only use the notation in Sonar to get an overview of how a script might appear. I use a seperate notation editor, Geniesoft Overture, that has VST hosting (though none of the advanced mixing options of traditional sequencing hosts).

dougsyo · Post by **dougsyo** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:40 pm

If scoring is their interest, they should look at Finale, Sibelius, or Overture. These are dedicated scoring applications that happen to host VSTI as output devices.

The scoring support in Sonar and other audio/midi sequencers is not the same caliber at all.

Doug

marce · Post by **marce** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:58 pm

The cakewalk score preview is good for basic guidenes.
You can also, use any midi/score editor and connect it to your prefered host, so you can add fx per track etc. I do that with tracktion, and is possible with reaper, and others i guess. When you have finished your midi file, you can import it for final tweaking.

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:09 pm

I think of Sonar's staff view as a device for entering musical notation (yes, I think in that stuff sometimes). It's okay for quick and dirty score generation but not much more. If that were important to me I'd get one of the big scoring apps -- or maybe SmartScore so I could also scan in sheet music; I could get an excellent upgrade price from my old version of MIDIscan. http://www.musitek.com/smartscre.html

goldbaker · Post by **goldbaker** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:17 pm

Interesting. I own an ancient version of Cakewalk's Scorewriter, which I believe has now been taken over by Geniesoft. I've discovered that it is much easier to write music for a computer in a sequencer or tracker, but, of course, if you intend it for human consumption you eventually need to convert to notation.

Therefore, you need a host that has good midi export and a scoring program that will accept it. If you want to start and finish with notation, from what I understand, Sibelius is your best bet.

lunik · Post by **lunik** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:37 pm

Thanks for all the replies. This has helped a lot.

As for 'lunik', no nothing to do with the band, but it was the name of an album I made some years ago.

RTaylor · Post by **RTaylor** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:16 pm

goldbaker wrote:Interesting. I own an ancient version of Cakewalk's Scorewriter, which I believe has now been taken over by Geniesoft. I've discovered that it is much easier to write music for a computer in a sequencer or tracker, but, of course, if you intend it for human consumption you eventually need to convert to notation.

Therefore, you need a host that has good midi export and a scoring program that will accept it. If you want to start and finish with notation, from what I understand, Sibelius is your best bet.

Unfortunately, noise/sound/etcscapes aren't exactly convertible. It might be cool if there were some sort of "wavetable" notation.

{Screech in A, Grind in C, etc in D}

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:58 pm

I think that if it has to happen *inside* the sequencer, Cubase is the thing to go for.
But for professional scoring, many people are using something else... over here Sibelius seems to be the most common choice.

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:37 am

I think that on PC, Cubase is the only sequencer that offers comprehensive scoring ... I just don't seem to be able to get to grips with notation in Cubase though, it feels un-natural.

I have used notation in Logic v5 and it is (iny m opinion) significantly better than Cubase, especially in useability, but others say the opposite.

For getting scores together I recommend Finale or Sibelius ... Overture and Encore are much easier to use and produce good quality prints, but they don't get as many updates / bugfixed as the big boys. Then again, the big boys use challenge / response ... while Overture / Encore use serial numbers.

Good luck
Fots

lunik · Post by **lunik** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:40 am

do overture and encore support vst instruments?

I checked out Finale and Sibelius and got the impression they do (so you can hear what you are doing)

soundpalace wrote:I think that on PC, Cubase is the only sequencer that offers comprehensive scoring ... I just don't seem to be able to get to grips with notation in Cubase though, it feels un-natural.

I have used notation in Logic v5 and it is (iny m opinion) significantly better than Cubase, especially in useability, but others say the opposite.

For getting scores together I recommend Finale or Sibelius ... Overture and Encore are much easier to use and produce good quality prints, but they don't get as many updates / bugfixed as the big boys. Then again, the big boys use challenge / response ... while Overture / Encore use serial numbers.

Good luck
Fots

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:41 am

Overture definitely does, Encore doesn't ...

In regards to Sibelius and Finale, I believe they only support a particular plugin by NI which is a cut down type of sampler that plays orchestral libraries, but this may have changed.

If you want VST, you might want to go with Overture, but test it very very thouroughly, since there are still quite a few little bugs which you may find annoying with it. In terms of VST, it supports stuff really really well, just the notation seems to have a few little bugs. Overall, it's a great program though.

I am personally considering selling my copy since I am planning to buy Cubase 4 which I plan to use for scoring ... haven't decided yet

Fots

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:28 am

I think VST support can be added more or less easily to any scoring program as long as they're throwing out MIDI data in realtime (which most of them should). Just use a virtual MIDI such as MIDI Yoke or Hubi's Loopback and route it into whatever VST host. The integrated Kompakt player of Sibelius isn't doing too well anyways.

soulata · Post by **soulata** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:25 am

soundpalace wrote:I am personally considering selling my copy since I am planning to buy Cubase 4 which I plan to use for scoring ...

Don't!

Try Cubase notation before you commit yourself to it, it masochistic.

Best hosts supporting scoring/notation on PC