KVR Audio

fliffo · Post by **fliffo** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:31 am

I'm working with ableton live. This host is always described as live performance/djing oriented, but I really miss a feature:
If I route some external audio (i.e. some beats) into one Live's track I'd like it to guess on the fly what tempo is it and automatically (and continuously) sync the host tempo with it.
I know all around there are good beat counters, who tell me their guess about the tempo of incoming audio, but what about the sync thing? Is there any workaround to do this?

maybe something like: <<vst-beatcounter-with-midi-tempo-sync-output>> routed into some virtual-midi-cable that sends external sync messages to the host??

VariKusBrainZ · Post by **VariKusBrainZ** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:10 am

have you tried the built in tap tempo ??

fliffo · Post by **fliffo** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:16 am

VariKusBrainZ wrote:have you tried the built in tap tempo ??

yes I know about it and it's very handy, but I have to tap it manually (maybe linked to an ext. midi controller). Also there is no automatical adaptation if the beat frequency changes, unless I tap the tempo correction.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

VariKusBrainZ · Post by **VariKusBrainZ** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:27 am

youre not wrong
just saw that new tap tempo plugin on the frontpage
I dont know of a plugin that does what you want on the fly.
theres this cheap bit of HW

http://www.behringer.com/BEAT800/index.cfm?lang=ENG

I understand that beat detection only works reliably with simple 4/4 beats though

fliffo · Post by **fliffo** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:18 am

yep...basicly I'm 4/4.
the sonic assault plugin in quite near to what I mean.
It can (hanven't tried tho)update host tempo...the problem is that it uses a "tap" to get the tempo.
I'd like instead a plugin like the sonic assault one, but that can get tempo from incoming audio: beatcounter from teragon audio does it, but doesn't output midi tempo messages, so the host tempo remains unaffected

zeoy · Post by **zeoy** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:41 am

This looks like what you need http://www.circular-logic.com/ but it costs 159$

VariKusBrainZ · Post by **VariKusBrainZ** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:48 am

whats wrong with manually changing Lives tempo, itll be a sudden jerk, but so would it if a plugin was outputting the detected tempo, unless you have a scheme to interpolate between Lives current tempo and the new tempo

just curious

just had an idea, what about an amplitude detector to midi cc plugin eg Auto Midi CC, found below

http://frettedsynth.asseca.com/effects.html

you could then map the cc to the tap tempo of possibly Lives tap tempo or Terragons tap tempo....just a theoretical idea

fliffo · Post by **fliffo** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:38 pm

VariKusBrainZ wrote:whats wrong with manually changing Lives tempo, itll be a sudden jerk, but so would it if a plugin was outputting the detected tempo, unless you have a scheme to interpolate between Lives current tempo and the new tempo

just curious

My mate is a drummer, I'm an electronic musician. I'd like to sync my sequencer to my drummer's tempo
- my sequenced beats
- my tempo linked FX's
Of course I could tap my drummer's tempo in, but the problem is that my drummer is an human & my laptop is a machine.
My drummer holds the tempo, but being an human he can *slighly* variate it during the execution; my laptop will keep the tempo I tapped once till the end.
I don't wanna use midi triggers on the drums, don't wanna buy them. I'd like something that listens to incoming audio, guesses the BPM (maybe smoothing the results) and outputs midi sync messages the continuously alter *slightlty* my sequencer tempo.

the tool zeoy suggested me sounds good but it costs too much and it requires midi triggers (i.e. it doesn't analyzes incoming audio).
the audioTOmidi thingie sounds interesting, I have to try it, even if I don't know if LIVE allows internal CC mapping....does it? I'm able just to map to external midi controllers

PTV · Post by **PTV** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:09 pm

fliffo wrote:yep...basicly I'm 4/4.
the sonic assault plugin in quite near to what I mean.
It can (hanven't tried tho)update host tempo...the problem is that it uses a "tap" to get the tempo.
I'd like instead a plugin like the sonic assault one, but that can get tempo from incoming audio: beatcounter from teragon audio does it, but doesn't output midi tempo messages, so the host tempo remains unaffected

Have you tried this?
http://forum.djdecks.be/viewtopic.php?t=1908

djwglpuppy · Post by **djwglpuppy** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:32 pm

The joy of Ableton is that you DON't have to be exact with the Tempo.... As long as you are close than it is all good... The reason why is that the Audio warping is so good that as soon as attach your track to it... it will automatically start to accomodate for the slight fluctuation in tempo. Also... if you are recording drums... Once you get used to Audiowarp markers... you can make the sligght changes to the Audio fairly quickly... I was a DJ that did a lot of Deep beat mixing and the Tempo Readout tool always annoyed me with there inconsistencies... I would spend more time frustrated with its readouts then to just accomodate tempo with my Ear. Even though tools can help facilitate this Beat matching process easier, I tend to still trust my ears and gut when it comes to on the fly tempo matching (unless someone can show me a beat detector tool that actually works Well)

fliffo · Post by **fliffo** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:52 pm

djwglpuppy wrote:The joy of Ableton is that you DON't have to be exact with the Tempo.... As long as you are close than it is all good... The reason why is that the Audio warping is so good that as soon as attach your track to it... it will automatically start to accomodate for the slight fluctuation in tempo. Also... if you are recording drums... Once you get used to Audiowarp markers... you can make the sligght changes to the Audio fairly quickly...

Yes, you're right, warping is the best thing ableton has...but it obviously comes in when I have something recorded. My idea was about live performance.

The thread in the adion-djdecks forum seems just what I mean. I dloaded the plugin and I'm gonna try it.

VariKusBrainZ · Post by **VariKusBrainZ** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:46 am

that lil prog sounds cool, but only one app can use ASIO drivers at a time....so you couldnt use it on the same machine as Live, unless you have 2 soundcards

fliffo · Post by **fliffo** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:49 am

I have my internal crappy laptop soundcard, and an external FW soundcard. I'd like to avoid this solution 'cause I wanna spare system resources. Actually if I remember right I totally disabled my laptop soundcard...
That's why it would be nice an audioIn/midiOut VST plugin for this puorpose.

VariKusBrainZ · Post by **VariKusBrainZ** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:55 am

have you tried the suggestion I made earlier, just curious if it would work, dont think it would unless your drummer is playing a really straight and simple rhythm. Also, probably a good idea to stick maybe a lowpass filter before the amplitude analyzer so its just reacting to the bassdrum....maybe, possibly

fliffo · Post by **fliffo** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:36 pm

tried. The audiotomidi doesn't fit, it locks to the amplitude analisys stage, so my drummer has to play straight 4/4 with the bassdrum...while I need something that's more a beatcounter, something that analyzes amplitude variations of incoming audio and guesses (at least tries to) the tempo.
The link suggested by PTV could result in what I need...but the developer is busy for now.

Abelton and tempo sync on the fly?