When will Reason 4 come out?

[headquest]

That's some interesting points synthbuilder. But even if their *share* of the market is declining the fact is that music software is still a massively expanding market. In that context, the Propellerhead's business seems to still be growing well...

In addition to taking on several more programmers *again* this year they have also restructed and enlarged their business management team, including IIRC opening American offices (for overseeing marketing and sales in that territory). They seem to be growing, and if your fears for their future are justified, they themselves seem not to have noticed yet

On the subject of the Props forum, I think there are two reasons why it may be quieter there:

1) Less non-Reason users seem to see a need to sign up merely to start flame wars, which is a relief!

2) The structure of their forum sucks, and you will find most Reason users prefer the new Combinator HQ forum, as well as Reason Station, etc. Those all seem to have more thriving communities.

[headquest]

You're just trying to keep the thread going longer than 5 pages to prove that Reason isn't dead yet, aren't you?

Good luck.

Seems to me things are looking up then

Seriously though John, are you the only Reason hater left? Where's BONES when you need him?

[spaceman]

Its one of the most popular pieces of software in the world and shows no sign of slowing down.

I wonder whether this is true. Of course, I have no figures to back this up, but I have had this feeling that Reason was losing its market share for quite a while. This comes from nothing more than a hunch based of two things that I have noticed.

1. The slowness it took me to sell my copy of Reason 3.0. This was advertised all over the place and I had to reduce it to less than half price to shift it. It still took me nearly five months.

2. The number of daily new posts on the Reason Forum seems to have dropped. Its the same old names popping up with very few new people joining in. Perhaps its just summer but perhaps not...

evidence like that surely is of a magnitude comparable to the evidence needed for the US to start a war with Iran

[kmonkey]

Oh, and by the way, for those saying the older reverb is wider, just put the MClass Stereo Imager after the R7000, and widen it that way. To my ears, the R7000 is way more natural than the older reverb! I wish it was availalbe in my VST enviroment. It uses so little CPU, and sounds so lush! I too agree that Reason has some great effects. Scream4 is one of my favs.

Well didn't we just discuss that older reverb has wider image. Nobody is talking about how they sound and which is more natural. I do think that RV7000 is better but it does not have stereo imaging like older (which does have it better IMO)and even you in some point supported this (that thing with stereo imaging).

All in all ppl need some serious turbo mother f**king update to that app or Propellerhead will loose alot of clients. That is the fact IMO. It deosn't have to be true

[Cryogenic]

Are Propellerhead silent of coming releases and features, because if everyone knew the features, they would jump ship and digg into the competition?

Seems like they know the features are not gonna revolutionize anything.
Just some 'good' new features.

The silent treatment of releases and plans are not 'cool' anymore.
As a comapny, they dont have that 'coolness' anymore.

[headquest]

Are Propellerhead silent of coming releases and features, because if everyone knew the features, they would jump ship and digg into the competition?

They have always been tight-lipped about updates.

Seems like they know the features are not gonna revolutionize anything.
Just some 'good' new features.

That's pure speculation

If I can trouble you with some facts for a moment, they have been silent about all their releases until public beta testing begins, but everything they have ever produced was to some extent "revolutionary". ReBirth was the first successful virtual instrument. ReCycle defined beatslicing. Reason more than anything before it made it possible to run all the instruments and effects needed in sequencing a full-on track. Each subsequent Reason release has been revolutionary. I already noted above how influential the latest release was 18 months ago - it's Combinator, ReMote and Browser have been widely influencial.

You have no more idea than the rest of us whether their next release will be revolutionary or not

If history teaches us anything in this instance, it is that Reason updates are usually suprising. They rarely follow the path others predict for them.

The silent treatment of releases and plans are not 'cool' anymore.
As a comapny, they dont have that 'coolness' anymore.

You obviously haven't seen their Reason Pianos video, because that is a VERY cool piece of marketing. Also their advertisements in the press have been really cool over recent months.

[Synthbuilder]

evidence like that surely is of a magnitude comparable to the evidence needed for the US to start a war with Iran

Yeah, but at least I said it was a hunch...

In addition to taking on several more programmers *again* this year they have also restructed and enlarged their business management team, including IIRC opening American offices (for overseeing marketing and sales in that territory).

Yes, and its surely not because of all these refills. Maybe, just maybe they have actually listened to the noisy majority who want something a lot better than R3. Maybe we will see something really quite radical with R4 or even R3.5.

Even so, I don't think R3 was that much of a jump forward for me. Combinator wasn't much more than a recursive structure within the Reason rack. True, it was very useful, but it didn't really allow that much more that a bit of creative programming could achieve. I'm not belittleling it, its a great step forward but not quite as great as some make it out to be. Having come from using E-Mu E6400 samplers, the combinator doesn't do half what the 'patchcords' page could do.

I sincerely hope they do do well. I had a great experience with Reason and the staff were always polite and fast when I did find a bug or four with the program.

[Cryogenic]

Are Propellerhead silent of coming releases and features, because if everyone knew the features, they would jump ship and digg into the competition?

They have always been tight-lipped about updates.

- I know this. But why.

Seems like they know the features are not gonna revolutionize anything.
Just some 'good' new features.

That's pure speculation

- Yes it is. Thats why i wrote 'seems'. And it may be a reason for their tight-lippness.

If I can trouble you with some facts for a moment, they have been silent about all their releases until public beta testing begins, but everything they have ever produced was to some extent "revolutionary". ReBirth was the first successful virtual instrument. ReCycle defined beatslicing. Reason more than anything before it made it possible to run all the instruments and effects needed in sequencing a full-on track. Each subsequent Reason release has been revolutionary. I already noted above how influential the latest release was 18 months ago - it's Combinator, ReMote and Browser have been widely influencial.

You have no more idea than the rest of us whether their next release will be revolutionary or not

- The Reason updates has not been revolutionary (Maybe only to the hardcore Reason fans). That's why i don't think the next release will be either. It will be just 'good', as the rest of the Reason updates. Thats why i speculate in that they're always silent about 'just good' features. If people knew months in advance, they would buy into the competition instead.

If history teaches us anything in this instance, it is that Reason updates are usually suprising. They rarely follow the path others predict for them.
- That's a part of their problem, if you ask me. I don't think a majority of Reason users, and a heap of potentioal users, will tolerate the P-head's 'own path' much longer.

The silent treatment of releases and plans are not 'cool' anymore.
As a comapny, they dont have that 'coolness' anymore.

You obviously haven't seen their Reason Pianos video, because that is a VERY cool piece of marketing. Also their advertisements in the press have been really cool over recent months.

- Oh. Obviously? I've seen it. Its great. But thats another type of coolness. It's not that kind they need for "the silent treatment".

[luckytoo]

For me it is very obvious what they should do, actually it is almost too obvious:

Create a VST version of the Combinator. Then you can hook up any Reason device into any VST compatible DAW, have all the power of Reason available plus all the editing / audio features of the DAW it sits in. When you fire up your DAW project, e.g. Cubase project, it automatically loads the Reason Combinator with all the right settings. No more Rewire hassle with first starting Cubase, then Reason, then loading the Reason project and then the Cubase project. It is just too confusing.

So instead of making Reason into a full fledged DAW, let it integrate better with the current DAWs that are already powerful enough and can handle any audio editing/recording wishes you have. Furthermore, Reason maintains the same stability and philosophy, while opening itself up to a whole new community!

R...

[spaceman]

and this time finaly cup holders

[Stupid American Pig]

I still rather like reason. Infact the fact that it *doesnt* have every feature that "professional software must have" is a great "feature" for me. I do wish they would make the entire app a vst, I dont want anything more really.

[safeaim]

VST3 will allow you to route plugins.
So someone will probably soon program a vsti á la Combinator. Or maybe NI will incorperate routingpossibilities inside KORE. That would be awesome

[Warmonger]

I still rather like reason. Infact the fact that it *doesnt* have every feature that "professional software must have" is a great "feature" for me. I do wish they would make the entire app a vst, I dont want anything more really.

Agreed. Somehow the limitations make me focus on getting stuff done. Take for example the Combinator. I was really excited about it at first because of the CV -> any parameter possibilities. After using it for a little bit, I was disappointed by it only having 4 knobs, and limited number of free assignments of those knobs. But as I have now realized, that has stopped me from wasting hours in sound design. I only use the Combinator knobs if I really need to to achieve a particular sound.

It seems to me that Propellerhead, more than most other companies, understand that endless possibility can often be counterproductive, so they build in certain limitations. Some people may not like it, but I honestly believe Reason is meant for those who are more interested in getting stuff done with what they have than complaining about what features they're missing.

Stuff like tempo and time sig automation, on the other hand, really does need to be added at some point. There's a lot of enhancements they can make that don't get in the way of their goal. Here's hoping we see some of them in the next release.

[headquest]

The Reason updates has not been revolutionary (Maybe only to the hardcore Reason fans). That's why i don't think the next release will be either. It will be just 'good', as the rest of the Reason updates.

Well at least we can agree that they have all been good

"Revolutionary" is an overused word, including by me . What I mean is probably that they have set a few trends and drawn up some of the real standards over the years. And each of the Reason updates has certainly been "unexpected"... for example, who would have predicted that Reason 2 would have included a full symphonic orchestra sample set? Not what people were quite asking for, but great none-the-less. ElectroMechanical was another bolt from the blue, as was the Combinator.

That's a part of their problem, if you ask me. I don't think a majority of Reason users, and a heap of potentioal users, will tolerate the P-head's 'own path' much longer.

That's another of those things none of us really know. However, I would say that it is Reason's uniqueness that gives it real value to me. If it turned into yet another audio/VST recording host I would really have no need for it. As it is, I find it a refreshing alternative

[headquest]

So someone will probably soon program a vsti á la Combinator.

Ableton Live 6's "racks" pretty much are a VST equivalent of the Combinator.