Seen a few things I like in Cubase4

[kritikon]

Surprisingly, there are quite a few things in Cubase4 that might actually tempt me to go for it. SX3 really didn't have enough extra in it, or different enough to make me leave SX2. So I thought I'd go for a positive slant, rather than slagging it (which I'll probably do later... )

1. Some of the plugins for a start - I suspect I'll use the poly version of Monologue quite alot. Monologue is an extremely capable synth, just a bit lame only in mono.

2.



I spotted this. I really like the sound of the multiband in SX. Some don't, but compressors are always down to taste. And finally Steniberg have realised that for a multiband, it's actually useful to have proper controls instead of all that automatic nonsense. Notice the proper threshold, attack, RELEASE! knobs instead of that ridiculously unusable silly graphical GUI they used to have. I will use the multiband alot more with proper control like this. An excellent upgrade all on its own for me.

3.

Not sure, but looks like a pitchshifter. If they've got a new set of plugins, it looks like they're actually going for it in a real way. Not just the odd addition. If it does what it looks like properly (and I have no reason to doubt it...Steinberg still have some of the best plugins in some of their own classes after all these years, whatever the nay-sayers say) Quadrafuzz, an excellent midigate, multiband, magneto, chorus...there's no reason why some of these new plugins won't be as good. Of course I don't expect them all to be the best, but some probably will be.

4. Halion. Whatever anyone says, Halion is a very capable sampler. It's long overdue that Cubase has a proper sampler in it. A very good addition - for the price I'll pay for the upgrade, this one sampler probably pays the entry fee. I don't own a full s/w sampler yet...I'll pay as much for one nearly as the full Cubase4 upgrade.

5. media Bay. Not anything amazing on its own. But it will get used I'm sure. I'm pretty organised with patches etc - I save patches with every song and in each own VSTi folder in its own patch folder. But I can get a bit ticked off with fiddling around trying to find old patches and settings from way back when. Again...not amazing, but very functional. And functional is more important than fancy unusable bells and whistles.

6. Track presets. I'm guessing, but this looks like they didn't go for drag'n'drop channels in terms of an already opened VSTi...but this way you can save the whole channel and when you open a new VSTi, simply reload the settings. Could have been better, but definitely an improvement to the way things are.

7. Instrument tracks. Not entirely sure what they're getting at here. I assume it's a streamlining of the silly way SX currently handles opening a VSTi. I have never liked it since Cubase VST stopped. Too many channels, too many times flicking between mixer and arrange page when you want to edit a midi assignment or whatever. This should have been in from SX1 - don't know why they buggered up the old way. They've wasted 6 years since VST5.1, but at least some of the ease of use is steadily returning. This could be a good return.

8.

User Interface Redesign

Designed with meticulous attention to detail, Cubase 4 features an extensively redesigned and anhanced user interface. The overall visibility of active items versus inactive items has been drastically enhanced, so although there are now more screen elements in Cubase 4 providing better access to even more features, overall visibility and orientation is now better than ever. Critical areas such as the Mixer and Inspector have received particular attention, with clearer highlighting and better readability of textual information.
The new user interface also introduces a number of new features, inculding a fully customizable Track Inspector. Not only can each item in the Track Inspector be hidden or shown as desired, but the order and visibility of items can be changed and stored individually for each track type.

* The Channel Strip window is also fully customizable, featuringits own setup panel and configuration options for each ndividual section - with full preset management. The new EQ section now offers a larger display area, giving better overview when using the new Channel EQ.

* The Mixer window offers even more flexibility and ergonomics in Cubase 4. View settings can be applied to any number of selected channels, and the view/hide status can be set either individually for a single channel or for several channels simultaneously.

All should be an improvement. Again, I feel like slagging off Steinberg for making SX so unweildy after VST in the first place, but it sounds like they're again heading in the right direction. If it gets rid of clutter and lets is improve the mixer etc ourselves, then that's all for the good.




I haven't even read the VST3 specs yet. All I know so far is that it allows multi-out (hopefully multi in as well) so maybe it allows independent sidechaining independent of the host. That can only be a good thing. Little things like the silence function (no processing with no input)...I know many plugins do this already, but it's good to have it official for all of them.


I'll be looking into it deeper, but so far I feel good about Cubase4. I'm more likely to upgrade this time than I was with SX3 - SX3 seemed more like an update to me, rather than an upgrade.

Don't know why they haven't gone 64bit-ready though.


Anyway...good vibes so far. I'll now wait and see what bugs are there before I buy. All you "must have now" people can do the usual beta-testing for me... . It'll also be interesting to see if Yamaha have improved the beta-testing regime. Maybe the first release will be more stable than Steinberg's usually are?

[kritikon]

I noticed on the Steinberg site they make much of the audio editing. And they show a screenshot of hitpoints on a drumloop. Which got me to thinking. I couldn't see any real details of the smaller improvements etc...like the hitpoint to groove thing that seemed to get lost from Cubase VST. Has that come back in 4? Anyone know?

I know you can make a groove map as such, but it used to be you could directly get the hitpoints in VST and apply them directly to any midi part in the arrangement there and then. It seemed to get longer-winded and obscure in SX. Getting hitpoints and converting to midi would be good to...I doubt that's in 4 though?


I went through the new list of FX too (missed that earlier). Some good ones in there. I see all the delays now have filters, and a proper ping-pong delay. Resonant mod FX from the sound of it - I like that idea. And I'll be very interested to hear the new and improved Eq. One of SX's weaker points to-date.

[Compyfox]

Surprisingly, there are quite a few things in Cubase4 that might actually tempt me to go for it.

Same here, with yet another setback on Sidechaining (only works with the known tricks or in the future with VST3 technology, they didn't unlock it yet in the coming release either), the removal on A1 and still no included IR module like all other major firms did already.

SX3 really didn't have enough extra in it, or different enough to make me leave SX2.

Well you have to admit that it had a lot of improvements (like the warp engine) and finally the long desired hardware functions (mixermap, patchnames) again. I used VST5.2 for a long time till I switched to SX3, and I happened to be just in time for the SX3 update cause I really wanted SX2.2

2. I spotted this. I really like the sound of the multiband in SX. ... And finally Steniberg have realised that for a multiband, it's actually useful to have proper controls instead of all that automatic nonsense. Notice the proper threshold, attack, RELEASE! knobs instead of that ridiculously unusable silly graphical GUI they used to have.

Was about damn time, I couldn't stand the multiband since VST and Wavelab 4 either.

3.

Not sure, but looks like a pitchshifter. If they've got a new set of plugins, it looks like they're actually going for it in a real way. Not just the odd addition.

Well this might be a "rehug" from their discontinue of "Steinberg Voice Machine", which was rad in my opinion. Though I'm still asking myself if the "Melodyne like" features in Cubase 4 are true that came up here on KVR. Asked Steinberg already, dunno if I get a response.

4. Halion. Whatever anyone says, Halion is a very capable sampler. It's long overdue that Cubase has a proper sampler in it. A very good addition - for the price I'll pay for the upgrade, this one sampler probably pays the entry fee. I don't own a full s/w sampler yet...I'll pay as much for one nearly as the full Cubase4 upgrade.

I have to dissapoint you. The included Halion is actually Halion One which is basicly "Halion Player", just redesigned. No built in sampler - it's a rompler with Yamaha Motiv sounds

5. media Bay. Not anything amazing on its own. But it will get used I'm sure. I'm pretty organised with patches etc - I save patches with every song and in each own VSTi folder in its own patch folder. But I can get a bit ticked off with fiddling around trying to find old patches and settings from way back when. Again...not amazing, but very functional. And functional is more important than fancy unusable bells and whistles.

I didn't see good reason in it yet rather than it looks like "Adobe Bridge" who has a lovechild with Windows Vista, but we will see what the future brings. A lot of people are already calling it "Kore Clone".

6. Track presets. I'm guessing, but this looks like they didn't go for drag'n'drop channels in terms of an already opened VSTi...but this way you can save the whole channel and when you open a new VSTi, simply reload the settings. Could have been better, but definitely an improvement to the way things are.

If I got that right from the video, it's more like "standard presets" for certain channels. Like... guitar with already loaded EQ/compression, setup inputs/outputs, routings, etc. The videos on the Steinberg Page sure are confusing.

I got a confirmation however that "dragging" VSTi's are planned for the next Cubase 4 update (as usual, they only reveal the good stuff with an half-a-year-later update) - Christian Beuer ment over at Cubase.net "we don't want to overload you!". Oh well, good marketing indeed.

7. Instrument tracks. Not entirely sure what they're getting at here. I assume it's a streamlining of the silly way SX currently handles opening a VSTi.

Actually it'S something like they did with an SX2 update. Remember that you had to open the inspector for each instrument, FX and group channel separately? With SX2.2 they combined the faders for this particular channel into the inspector. They went a tad further here.

If you do automation, you usually do one on the MIDI channel, and way further down for the VSTi seperately. They combined this now (streamlined): With your MIDI channel's automation dropdown you can now control the VSTi and the MIDI channel itselt all in one place. Very handy indeed.

8. User Interface Redesign
I haven't even read the VST3 specs yet. All I know so far is that it allows multi-out (hopefully multi in as well) so maybe it allows independent sidechaining independent of the host. That can only be a good thing. Little things like the silence function (no processing with no input)...I know many plugins do this already, but it's good to have it official for all of them.

Well Sidechaining doesn't work "yet", as they will unlock it with the next "major update" (no bugfixes) and as soon as some firms start releasing VST3 plugins. The VST3 technology is capable of it, just Cubase is like "not in the mood yet".

Multi In/out is possible. For example: Multiple output speaker systems (I guess you need multitrack cards for that anyway) and multiple simultaneously inputs (mp3/iPod/DAT/etc). So yeah.

What I personally like is the talkback function, finally a "mono switch" (though in the video it only worked for surround), and I misinterpreted the new "L" button on the mixer pannel. I thought this is for "linking" channels for sidechaining, then again it's called "listen", which solos the particular track, but you still hear the context, however turned down around 20dB - a dimmer function so to say.

I'll be looking into it deeper, but so far I feel good about Cubase4. I'm more likely to upgrade this time than I was with SX3 - SX3 seemed more like an update to me, rather than an upgrade.

Actually that was SX1 -> SX2, too. A lot could have been implemented into SX2.5, but Steinberg was like "nah, we rebuilt the complete engine, so we sell it as "major version". As it happened with Cubase 4. Again the Steinies said that this thing was rebuilt from "scratch" and totally enhanced. Then again, the name isn't that inspiring and "new", since Cubase VST 4 already existed, but for Mac only.

You also shouldn't forget that SX2 to SX3 took a bit like 1,5 years (if not just 1 year) and SX3 is out for 2 years already, too. It's exactly 2 years as soon as they ship Cubase 4 internationally (4th October if I remember correctly). And even though they sell Virtual Guitarrist 2, recently announced Virtual Drummer 3 and sell Halion Orchestra for like a month or so now, I really guess Steinberg is in the position once again that they need money. I mean no wonder, VG2 isn't so great after all, and the East West deals with their major flagships totally outsell Steinberg in terms of their Hypersonic/XPhraze, too.

Don't know why they haven't gone 64bit-ready though.

Again I guess the ultimate excuse is "so we have something for a major update in 6 months".

Anyway...good vibes so far. I'll now wait and see what bugs are there before I buy. All you "must have now" people can do the usual beta-testing for me... . It'll also be interesting to see if Yamaha have improved the beta-testing regime. Maybe the first release will be more stable than Steinberg's usually are?

Dunno, some people hare praising it already (the beta testers of course), but some (myself included) are already rambling on it too that the people were ignored once again with wishes and the like, especially since this update is more expensive than usual (169Euro, and I guess on 1st Jan 2007 it'll be 199Euro from SX3).

They sure creamed Cubase "weaknesses" in new VSTi's and a handful of new coded plugins, then thew in some stuff inspired from ProTools and real Hardware mixers and sell it as "something new and innovative". We're used to that, then again it'S the first(!) host that offer's VST3 technology (again Steinberg starts off, the others follow) and they give ideas that other's will surely implement and massively enhance (see Sonar, Samplitude and Logic), for around the same price if not less.

Cubase 4 is the most expensive Sequencer on the market without bundled DSP systems (879Euro, was 799Euro before!) - we will see if this is adjusted or if the "included stuff" is once again only "bread and butter" (it sure will be, especially the Waves fraction and the so called "high end engineers will say so - Roger Nichols anyone?!) is just crap which is the excuse for the priceraise. Then again, at least we get 2 printed handbooks this time, beginners guide and a real handbook, even the upgraders.


We will know for sure on october, as all major magazines started rambling on it, and as soon as the first outcries, coursing and swearing happens as usual.

[bduffy]

Cubase 4 is the most expensive Sequencer on the market without bundled DSP systems

Watch it with the "most expensive" - Cubase is about half the price of Sampltude here in Canada, for instance.

I have a good vibe about this one, but I'm lovin' my SX 3 upgrade; should've done it a long time ago. This time I won't wait as long.

I'm really looking forward to the new plugins, too. I share Kritikon's excitement over the multiband compressor that works like...a compressor! And an improved chorus...sexy...with VST3 CPU optimization!

Ach, don't mind me. I'm beginning to buy the hype; I should remind myself how atwitter I was over Kontakt 2...

[bduffy]

Oh - there are some more intimate shots at Steinberg Canada, if anyone's interested.

[Compyfox]

OMG KONTAKT2 IS SO AWESOME! [/end being a flippy and stuff]
But for real now, I guess this was the best purchase I've ever done.


Okay, it's "not" the most expensive sequencer. Well at least in Canada. But it's one of the most expensive now. (still think it lacks an IR module, though).

And what's pissing me off personally, is the promotion Steinberg's doing. The german page has so less info's (not to mention the info's being german), USA tops that twice as much, and Canada even more! THough it's a bit too colorful fo rmy taste (yeah, I'm used to the old boring gray and white colors from old Cubase days, I barely use any coloring)


I mean, with those small pictures of the GUI and the plugins, you jump to conlcusions fairly quick. But after looking at the Canadian Infopage - WOHA! It sure isn't as flashy anymore (embossed buttons) and more flattened, letting it look more boring in the first place - but holy sh*t this stuff sure looks awesome and planned through (at least from the point of view of the Steinberg crew - haha). Whether or not it sounds just as good is another thing.


It's going a bit back to the "old days" mixed with ProTools' minimalistic GUI. As if it's being jumped out of a comic book (les shadows on the buttons and faders). But well - if it works? That's the most important thing after all.

I mean... personally I don't necessarily "need" a new host upgrade, but there sure are some features in it that I'd really love to use. Sidechaining (that's not working "yet"), then some new MIDI functions (use the line tool and trim more than just one note!), the new "listen/dim" mode (very handy if you try to get sounds more prominent while mixing, or writing in solo mode and still having some bg music), several speaker setups (5.1 and 2.0 simultaneously!), the drag&drop of VST plugins.

Yeah, and of course I'm on the save side in terms of VST plugins/FX that'll come out and be in VST3 technology, even though SX2 could handle VST2.3 too without the MTD updates, same with Cubase VST5.2 and VST2 technology or Cubase VST3.7 with Halion (everyone said it won't work unless you use VST5.x).


My only concern is my computer... I'm still runing with Win2K and everything's stable...

[bduffy]

Win2k! I'd say "Wow", but I only got switched to XP at work, like, last year, and our Edit machines still run...NT! But you know, I'll take XP over NT any day. If everything's stable and how you like it, then don't switch, but the list of things that will run on 2k gets shorter all the time. (I thought Kontakt couldn't run on 2k anymore?)

Yeah - isn't the difference in web promotions amazing? The Canadian website is just stuffed with information, cooler + bigger graphics - I was totally sold after seeing that, with nice, clear pictures; makes you want to use it! It strikes me as very sloppy that they don't have a more consolidated PR campaign. If it makes you feel any better, it takes forever for new Steinberg stuff to hit the shelves out here. Seriously, it was months before the Nuendo 3 upgrade was available from Steinberg Canada, despite the site saying otherwise.

And I agree: the initial pics we got didn't do the interface justice: those new closeups are much more appealing. I like the new, flatter look, even though sometimes I think Steinberg overhaul their graphics too much! But you gotta stay "hip"!

Can't wait to find out.

[Muff Wiggler]

the removal on A1

I'm sure it'll be there in the 'legacy plugins' folder on the install disc. They seem to always do this when they retire plugins, so you can open old projects.

[bduffy]

the removal on A1

I'm sure it'll be there in the 'legacy plugins' folder on the install disc. They seem to always do this when they retire plugins, so you can open old projects.

Except the legacy Cubase VST plugins are no longer included with Cubase SX 3! But I'm sure they won't retire the "final" Waldorf softsynth.

[Compyfox]

Maybe, but then again... looks like I have to keep my copies to still use it and complete the "Waldorf Collection". Maybe it's a licensing thing since Waldorf is back on track again.

And yeah bduffy, K2 runs on Win2K, both as VSTi and Standalone... like a charme. Sometimes you have luck, sometimes not. Halion3 was also known to run "only on XP", and it does run on Win2K. A friend of mine was thrilled after he got his hands on the latest Adobe Premiere version for his studio, he was also like "do I have to upgrade? I hate XP", and it worked.

Sometimes the firms only write down "XP" because it's the latest OS and this way they prevent any support for elder operating systems. Same with Behringer. They were like "the BCR/BCF works only with XP" - I know people where it works on Win2K.

Then again, I still have a XP copy lying around that I still didn't install, might as well get finally rid of those "dead" Waves demos and tons of bugs created with installing/uninstalling VSTi's and random tools for my studio. However Cubase and Wavelab ran fine so far, so there was no need.


But let us get back on topic please

[bduffy]

Maybe, but then again... looks like I have to keep my copies to still use it and complete the "Waldorf Collection". Maybe it's a licensing thing since Waldorf is back on track again.

And yeah bduffy, K2 runs on Win2K, both as VSTi and Standalone... like a charme. Sometimes you have luck, sometimes not. Halion3 was also known to run "only on XP", and it does run on Win2K. A friend of mine was thrilled after he got his hands on the latest Adobe Premiere version for his studio, he was also like "do I have to upgrade? I hate XP", and it worked.

Sometimes the firms only write down "XP" because it's the latest OS and this way they prevent any support for elder operating systems. Same with Behringer. They were like "the BCR/BCF works only with XP" - I know people where it works on Win2K.

Then again, I still have a XP copy lying around that I still didn't install, might as well get finally rid of those "dead" Waves demos and tons of bugs created with installing/uninstalling VSTi's and random tools for my studio. However Cubase and Wavelab ran fine so far, so there was no need.


But let us get back on topic please

Yeah, I'm struggling to remember what didn't work...well, I thought Kontakt 2 was one of those things! But I knew that SX 3 won't even install on a 2k machine and I Wanted to change. Honestly, I found it much better when I'd sit down at home to an XP machine than the 2k one. But I'm a sucker for a little pizazz, probably.

Mind you, if you use XP and just turn off all the crap, you've pretty much got 2000! Is there something inherently dangerous about XP for audio that you and your friend know? I mean, XP is getting kind of old and settled-in now. 2k is over 6 years old, I really see no need to stick with it anymore.

Oh - and you could always do a dual-boot! My brother still runs 98 on his XP machine.

[Compyfox]

Well we don't play stuff on PC, so we didn't see a need for XP, though I found out that some stuff works on XP while it doesn't on 2K (just my imagination maybe, but one of it is the Boris K. Synth pack!). He switched in the meanwhile, my system is running 2k for almost 1,5 year straight now without reinstalling - so yeah.

And btw... SX3 can be installed on 2k - best proof is my setup (using SP4 however). It even runs on 98SE, did a test with my laptop before I installed 2K on it. Only Adobe stuff refuses to install, though here it's more a matter of insuficient RAM rather than the OS.

Well even GuitarPort (the old software and the GearBox pack) can be installed on 98SE and Win2K, just bleargs at me cause I don't use IE6/IE7 but Firefox. XD


But yeah, I'm curious what's up with Cubase 4 and especially what will happen as soon as Windows Vista will be released "officially".

[bduffy]

No shit! You can install SX 3 on 2k. Get out. I swear I made the mistake of trying to install Cubase on a 2k machine, and there was an error message, then nothing. Huhn!

Now Windows Vista! There's something I won't touch for a looong time. That just look way to resource-heavy for audio.

[kritikon]

There certainly is alot more info on the Candian site. The NZ site is pretty much the same as the German one (except not in German...). And seeing more info makes me like it more too.

Additional New Features
• Mac PPC/Intel - Universal Binary
• Advanced AudioWarp Realtime Transpose
• New Trim Tool
• User-configurable Track Inspector
• New state-of-the-art Channel EQ
• User-configurable Channel Strip
• Intuitive Audio + MIDI Hardware Setup
• MP3 Surround
• MPEX 3 - High-quality audio time-stretching and pitch-shiftin

I saw no mention of the realtime transpose anywhere else. Can you do anything realtime with the Warp etc in SX3? I like the sound of that realtime transpose. I can imagine I can get back to doing weird and wacky pitchshifting FX like on samplers and even something like the Wavestation.

And just little things like "a new trim tool" not sure what that'll be, but it could be useful. Some of those little niceties like the tools can be improved. e.g. if you don't convert an audio clip into a part, and snip off the front end - it moves the whole clip back instead of keeping it in its relative position (unless that changed in SX3?). A tool that trims but maintains position would be useful for me.


Hmmm...I might have a surf around the different Steinberg sites around the world and see what else they all have. It seems not all Steinberg sites are the same.

[bduffy]

Ahem, allow me, my good man:

I saw no mention of the realtime transpose anywhere else. Can you do anything realtime with the Warp etc in SX3? I like the sound of that realtime transpose. I can imagine I can get back to doing weird and wacky pitchshifting FX like on samplers and even something like the Wavestation.

I don't know anything about the Wavestation, but you can do realtime pitchshifting in SX 3. Warp and Audio Quantize are set up kind of like ACID, where you can stretch and transpose entire tracks. I haven't really explored these things as much as I should, and I certainly haven't done any mangling (apart from my usual composing skills) but that's the basic nutshell. Bring in your audio, hitpoint it, stretch/transpose it around.

And just little things like "a new trim tool" not sure what that'll be, but it could be useful. Some of those little niceties like the tools can be improved. e.g. if you don't convert an audio clip into a part, and snip off the front end - it moves the whole clip back instead of keeping it in its relative position (unless that changed in SX3?). A tool that trims but maintains position would be useful for me.

The new trim tool you could see working in the steinberg.net vids, actually. That you can use to slice MIDI notes totally freeform with a line tool. This will save tons of time for me when I'm programming MIDI guitar; as it is, I go in and fine-shift each note by hand to make a strum; now, I could slice them all in a slant in one go. I think this is one of those VST things they forgot to put back in, if I recall.

Hmmm...I might have a surf around the different Steinberg sites around the world and see what else they all have. It seems not all Steinberg sites are the same.

I think you've got all the info there is to have. What we need is Majken and beta-testers to start talking!