Mix saturation (Charles Dye style) using PSP MixSaturator

[Kingston]

Aren't you trying to sell multiband saturation

no. read the website, I've as clearly as possible outlined the process there.

IS that worth extra cpu cycles and the trouble of setting up ?

depends entirely on what you want to achieve. Listen to the audio demos, or try the plugins and you'll know. I cannot possibly answer a question this subjective for you.

[Kingston]

Telling people that dual mono doesn't work for you is great ...but theres a few people I have now worked with that like this idea..and IT IS JUST AN IDEA...something happens with 2 plugins than one..all be it small..but it does make a difference..and yes the mind is a wonderful tool..but so are your ears

It just doesn't happen, no use fighting the reality. With two identically set up plugins and provided you have set your I/O levels correctly, there is absolutely no difference to just one instance on a stereo bus (depending on the stereo link/dependency circumstances I outlined earlier, which mostly does not apply here).

It's all in the mind, which is what I insinuated earlier. And yes placebo can do great things, but I would rather know what really happens (and I do).

There's no black magic involved in plugin development and the algorithms we use.

[oblagon]

Telling people that dual mono doesn't work for you is great ...but theres a few people I have now worked with that like this idea..and IT IS JUST AN IDEA...something happens with 2 plugins than one..all be it small..but it does make a difference..and yes the mind is a wonderful tool..but so are your ears

It just doesn't happen, no use fighting the reality. With two identically set up plugins and provided you have set your I/O levels correctly, there is absolutely no difference to just one instance on a stereo bus (depending on the stereo link/dependency circumstances I outlined earlier, which mostly does not apply here).

It's all in the mind, which is what I insinuated earlier. And yes placebo can do great things, but I would rather know what really happens (and I do).

There's no black magic involved in plugin development and the algorithms we use.

it's desirable to use slightly different settings on the duplicated plugins

you might be right tought. the difference might be solely or mostly in one's mind .

[kritikon]

Oh yes indeedy. The placebo in medicine has been documented as up to 50% efficacy in things like medication.

Maybe the dual mono crap is attempting to double up the 50% placebo effect into a full 100% by using double the channels -> hence double 50% = 100% tomfoolery and self delusion.


C'mon people...think about it. If you seriously wanted to f**k up your stereo channel by treating them differently...do you think absolutely stable and rigid s/w is the way to do it? If you were that obsessive and fooled into the dual mono crap, then h/w would be the way to do it. And it wouldn't be digital h/w either. I can't think of a single high end processor that uses splitting the stereo in/out into dual mono as a feature. In fact the complete opposite...they make much out of the fact that stereo is preserved, not f**ked up.


Paint your monitor screen silver with gold-leaf stencils. It's going to have just as much effect. At least it'll look nicer and sound the same instead of looking and sounding the same.


Maybe I'm just wrong. Maybe the last 30 years of digital and analogue h/w striving to preserve a stereo cohesion is all just wasted R&D. Maybe we didn't all cheer when stereo linking came in. Maybe we should turn one speaker upside down. Maybe if we're that upset by s/w that we dick around with ridiculous things like doubling every plugin we use just to make two identical mono channels instead of two identical L and R stereo channels ( ) we should have the courage of our convictions and go back to using real h/w. Because some obviously think h/w is so bad, they have to use imaginary tricks to make it sound imaginatively better.


You know what it sounds like to me? Advertising hype by an engineer or whoever to try and hype up some business or kudos to himself. He knows damn well there's always a percentage of people who strive so hard, they'll believe any old shite.

And it really is any old shite. I'm not going to sit on the fence here. It's complete and utter bollocks. Of course it will sound different if you use 2 mono plugins and set them differently. But here we are talking about using 2 plugins set identically. 2 s/w digital plugins with precision maths...on a s/w digital format that was originally hailed as the saviour of music precisely because it was computed, because the 0s and 1s will be the same every time unless you tell them not to be.


Pinch yourselves and wake up...there's too much petrol-sniffing been going on or something.


FFS

[Kingston]

You know what it sounds like to me? Advertising hype by an engineer or whoever to try and hype up some business or kudos to himself. He knows damn well there's always a percentage of people who strive so hard, they'll believe any old shite.

And it really is any old shite. I'm not going to sit on the fence here. It's complete and utter bollocks.

Excellent wrap up, sir!

[oblagon]

You can't possibly argue that using double mono with plugins that have a bit different setting don't produce variation and enhance the sound a bit. The level of perceived enhancement can be, (probably is) exaggerated.

Who the hell cares about the proper usage of effect and proper techniques ? I use multiband compressor for equing. For me that's far faster, better and easier to use than compressor + eq combo. Because that's not a text book approach doesn't make it wrong. It's in fact 10000 x better.

[Kingston]

You can't possibly argue that using double mono with plugins that have a bit different setting don't produce variation and enhance the sound a bit. The level of perceived enhancement can be, (probably is) exaggerated.

I certainly never argued that. I just think it negligible.

So we basically agree, after all.

[oblagon]

You can't possibly argue that using double mono with plugins that have a bit different setting don't produce variation and enhance the sound a bit. The level of perceived enhancement can be, (probably is) exaggerated.

I certainly never argued that. I just think it negligible.

So we basically agree, after all.

we kind of agree. i think it's worth spending 5 min on setting this up (with energy XT fx it doesn't take longer than that).

[bduffy]

Hey - does anyone have any mix examples of this effect in practice? Just for fun?

[oblagon]

Hey - does anyone have any mix examples of this effect in practice? Just for fun?

i can send you something..

[ToneCarver]

It just doesn't happen, no use fighting the reality. With two identically set up plugins and provided you have set your I/O levels correctly, there is absolutely no difference to just one instance on a stereo bus (depending on the stereo link/dependency circumstances I outlined earlier, which mostly does not apply here).

This would be true for most plugins, but not for plugins that use randomization in their algorithms. In that case different instances of the plugin would produce different output with idential input. I think TapeBus has some randomization that makes a dual-mono configuration produce different results than a stereo configuration.

I mix with a dual-mono saturation setup and I can hear a difference, subtle, but detectable.

[oblagon]

BOOM!

first half has l/r compression and a bit of saturation on buses. Second half is stereo.

For some reason during mixing the difference appears to be far greater . Side by side, it's only slightly different. I'd still go with dual mono.

[bduffy]

Thanks, oblagon. Downloading now.

[bduffy]

Wow, that was a very chaotic clip you chose!

Honestly, I can't hear any difference from start to finish.

[oblagon]

Wow, that was a very chaotic clip you chose!

Honestly, I can't hear any difference from start to finish.

I make industrial music

listen through headphones. The distorted synth is the most noticable.