KVR Audio

HamsterMadness · Post by **HamsterMadness** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:01 pm

From what I heard from a betatester it's not one piano instrument with presets but several of them. Then again, if you add a slight reverb causing it to sound 'real', does it cause a dry instrument not to sound real considering most libraries use reverb settings (often preprocessed samples) to obtain certain similar results...

So what makes an instrument sound real ? If you play a piano in the open-air or in a concert hall makes a difference. Assuming a sound is dry and you apply your favorite concerthall reverb over it, what makes it less usable ? I personally see it as a huge advantage is the sound if somewhat dry.

rcat · Post by **rcat** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:20 pm

"Do you think that air you're breathing is real"
Morpheus

HamsterMadness · Post by **HamsterMadness** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:14 pm

Have I taken the blue or red pill already ?

nixnutz · Post by **nixnutz** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:51 pm

The emulation of the string resonance is interesting; is there some control over mic placement?

I'd like to try using this as an effect. I want to try miking a bass cabinet from near or inside a piano. This might be a terrible idea, but not having a bass, a bass amp or a piano I'm not likely to find out any other way. I just know I heard one note like this in a song I was chopping up recently and I was wondering if you could achieve this in software.

HamsterMadness · Post by **HamsterMadness** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:04 pm

Well convolution reverbs are basically what you want. You could play a 'dry' (which is important in that case) in e.g. a badroom impulse and place that result again in a convolution reverb of a tiny crappy speaker.. Basically you just stack up those convolution reverbs.. Same as with impulses of certain mic's or amplifiers.. Basically you only need an as high quality as possible original dry sound and pass them through impulses to create the desired effect.. This is also part of the reason why dry piano sounds are so important..

egarrard · Post by **egarrard** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:18 pm

nixnutz wrote:I'd like to try using this as an effect. I want to try miking a bass cabinet from near or inside a piano.

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/507.html

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:22 pm

forget it

egarrard · Post by **egarrard** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:05 pm

aMUSEd wrote:I can't believe I'm reading another thread "announcing" this instrument when it's clearly not finished and when such disclosures are so clearly against the developers express wishes and the spirit of the NDA betatesters enter into. This bad faith discussion should end here or it will end up just like the last one with ridiculous statements about "vaporware" and misunderstandings of it's capabilities due to the premature nature of any released material.

Who are you complaining about, the developer or the beta testers? That video was released by the developer, wasn't it?

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:10 pm

egarrard wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:I can't believe I'm reading another thread "announcing" this instrument when it's clearly not finished and when such disclosures are so clearly against the developers express wishes and the spirit of the NDA betatesters enter into. This bad faith discussion should end here or it will end up just like the last one with ridiculous statements about "vaporware" and misunderstandings of it's capabilities due to the premature nature of any released material.
That video was released by the developer, wasn't it?

What makes you think that?

egarrard · Post by **egarrard** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:25 pm

egarrard wrote: That video was released by the developer, wasn't it?

aMUSEd wrote:What makes you think that?

It was just an assumption on my part since it looks like one. Are you saying it isn't?

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:28 am

Just wondering is this thread a continuation of the thread:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... no#2109555 ?
I visited http://www.truepianos.com/ but had no links to more info. I read most but not all of this thread. Did I miss something?

I was in a thrift store earlier today that had an old piano for sale. I hit one note and that is enough for me to get excited. I though what a beautiful sweet sound! I do not get this feeling from any VSTi piano. Though some VSTi pianos are good none excite me from a striking a single note. Do others have a similar experience?

HamsterMadness · Post by **HamsterMadness** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:59 am

Have you ever heard a recording where the first note of piano music gave you that feeling ? Now there is your answer. From a real piano the sounds comes from the whole area of the piano. In your home situation you probably get the sound out of 2 monitor speakers (not display monitor speakers of course) or less ok, normal speakers, or even more terrible an elcheapo 2.0-5.1 speakerset..

Even if you had a perfectly recorded say 5.1 marketing hyped piano you won't get that exact sound.

The only way to get a 1:1 effect is by using a recording method that requires you to wear headphones which captures the sound as the average ears (which is far more realistic than any up to 99.1 Dolby digital solution).. but since headphones don't have the dynamic range of a good set of monitor speakers it's only wishfull thinking.

The closest way to reach the type of sound you want from a certain piano type that is compatible enough to play back your recordings on other people's setup is to tweak it the way you like it using a 2 speaker monitor system that is neutrally adjusted using a convolution reverb adjusted to your personal taste. Not forgetting of course other mastering related VSTs like EQ, etc..

Any piano VSTi that sounds exactly as you prefer it (the best possible way, out of the box on a 2 speaker system) is worthless or at least less than versatile to use for composing music tracks for most (semi-)professional composers. Unless you like to buy a new piano library with new settings for each situation you'd like, even if the sound is similar.

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:10 am

My comparison of real piano VS. VSTi piano from two speakers was not a fair comparison. Recorded piano single notes from a commercial CD still sound better then any piano VSTi. I am not looking for 1=1 but something that has a beautiful and sweet tone. I just hope that this new TruePiano will be a level up. Cant wait to try a demo.

My favorite so far is he ArtVista Virtual Grand Piano. I know my weakness. I will have to learn to tweak the piano and FX for best results. I am getting better. The suggestion by HamsterMadness to add "convolution reverb adjusted to your personal taste. Not forgetting of course other mastering related VSTs like EQ, etc.." is a help. Any additional specific advice is welcome.

matto · Post by **matto** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:42 am

Kalamata Kid wrote:My comparison of real piano VS. VSTi piano from two speakers was not a fair comparison. Recorded piano single notes from a commercial CD still sound better then any piano VSTi. I am not looking for 1=1 but something that has a beautiful and sweet tone. I just hope that this new TruePiano will be a level up. Cant wait to try a demo.

My favorite so far is he ArtVista Virtual Grand Piano. I know my weakness. I will have to learn to tweak the piano and FX for best results. I am getting better. The suggestion by HamsterMadness to add "convolution reverb adjusted to your personal taste. Not forgetting of course other mastering related VSTs like EQ, etc.." is a help. Any additional specific advice is welcome.

Have you tried this: http://www.sampletekk.com/products.php?cat=42
Closest to the real thing imho.

matto

Gregjazz · Post by **Gregjazz** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:26 am

matto wrote: Have you tried this: http://www.sampletekk.com/products.php?cat=42
Closest to the real thing imho.

It is indeed very realistic, but it takes a lot of RAM, hard disk space, and takes a while to load up. Not to mention it's DFD, so you get all of the problems that come with that--note dropping, maybe some click noises or whatnot.

A new piano in town