minimoog- which to get!?

[Vonbrucken]

you should watch out for this thread too the guy made a minimmoog freeware with a nice gui but it is not online now
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 04&start=0

[Scot Solida]

Hi Scott , do you not feel/hear that there is just something really missing in the lower and higher end of the audio in vsti emulations of old analog as in lower end of keyboard and higher octaves.. I've just (last week) finished a 10 month, 3.2 gb, 13,762 samples, uber RSI in the wrist intensive sampling session for my first product.

I'm still at the same conclusion that I had in the start of all that.....that vsti's do come close, but are missing something, and allways have that digital vsti sound. I'm in no way a purist myself and love vsti's and use them regularly in my releases. But it's like.... 1 note bassline 1osc no filters from an old hardware Moog has so much power and presence in a mix, that I found none of any of the softwares could compete with on similare settings.

They just seem to sit in a mix requiring hardly any compression other than to maybe tame them, and barly any eq other than to role off some of the obscene bass these old hardware synths produce

Well, yeah. There is something missing from the bottom end...(at least when compared to my own Mini) and as I said, the Minimonsta comes closer to this sound than the MinimoogV. As for the high end...I think the virtual versions are often too bright. Whether this will bother most users, I don't know. Sometimes the Mini is too prominant for some tracks, and I turn to a different synth, so these things may not be of benefit.

As for the digital sound...well the digital versions are digital, but some sound less digital than others. However, if I want analog from a VST, I just run them through the Manley. Works magic on 'em. Usually, I don't desire it. My studio is in no danger of sounding terribly digital anytime soon...

My Minimoog hardly ever drifts out of tune. It stays pretty solid after it warms up. In fact, the tuning is far more trustworthy than some other "classics" (good luck getting a VCS-3 in tune in the first place, much less keeping it there).

I guess my main point was that I don't really see the retro-fetishist point. I have never bought into the idea that the analogue sound is inherently better than its digital offspring. Different, sure...but not better. I have had no trouble coaxing good (and bad) sounds out of both. Personally, I don't need an emulation of a Mini (or anything else for that matter), so I tend to look at the virtual versions as a new tool rather than a precise recreation of an old one. Besides, as as been said, it'll never be exact. My Mini might sound very different from the one that came off of the assembly line right after it.

At the end of the day, I really can't imagine that I'd care whether a brilliant solo was played on a real Mini or a virtual one...If I did, I'd probably think I'd lost my ability to appreciate music. That would suck.

[Scot Solida]

<snip> The actual Minimoog is a special instrument, but let's face it, it has three oscillators, a lowpass filter and a couple of ADR envelopes...not dissimilar to a million softsynths. <snip>

A million softsynths or analog hardware synths may appear similar in the number of oscillators, LPF's and ADSR's in common (as you stated), however these aren't the heart of a synth. The soul of the synth, the magic, the personality, the uniqueness is in the filter(s). Minimoog is no exception, so the 'authenticity' (subjective from user to user anyway) of a Minimoog in a software recreation depends more on the ability to recreate the sound of the filters in software. Given that, due to the nature of analog synth construction, and as someone pointed out two hardware Minimoog's aren't even identical sounding (read: the FILTERS aren't identical sounding) and therefore this discussion seems a bit trivial to me - which plugin is closest to something that isn't static to begin with.


-Odditory

Wasn't that what I said? Some people want the sound of a Minimoog, while some want the particular set of parameters.

[wildzeke]

I don't know which Minimoog is technically better. But as a company, I like Gmedia Music better than Arturia.

[rpc9943]

okay so im trying to demo this stuff- i want to cash in now while i can and see what ill be able to do... the issue i think now is, is there great benefit in clarity and sound when dealingwith say these 2 free minimoog synths or maybe getting minimonsta, what im saying is - is this worth it? ialready have fm covered, and now i think i want to get a minimoog, it'll be more than enough for me... pls thoughts

RonC

[rpc9943]

yow just tried out synth1 -- still a synth noob here, now seriously do you relaly think id need minimonsta after trying out synth1!!! seriously though would minimonsta be a perfect companion to synth1, fm7?

RonC

[Synthbuilder]

... someone pointed out two hardware Minimoog's aren't even identical sounding (read: the FILTERS aren't identical sounding)

Whilst I agree with most of what you have written, on this point I have to disagree with the inference that the filter is only the determining factor.

The minimoog's VCOs and VCA both contribute to the sound of the machine. Although the filter is an important part in the sound, the difference in any two filter cicruit boards should be less than the differences in tone in the three versions of the VCO circuit board. This alone should tell us that the sound of the Mini is not entirely dependant on the filter.

The three versions of the VCO board were very different electronically. Although the basic waveform initially appears the same, there are noticeable differences in tone. However, it should be said that the differences may not be entirely down to pure waveform shape, but to frequency drift and jitter.

The VCA does impart a considerable tone to the actual sound of the Mini. The VCA design is unique to the Mini and people copying the Mini would do well to analyse its characteristics as well as the filter and VCO.

Having said all that, the filter is surely the most important part in determining tone, so it is not unwise to consider this the first thing to try to emulate.

[P.T.]

Try Wusik with saw waves loaded. Thay have a fairly moogish sound.

[rpc9943]

ive actually been trying things out with synth1 and minimogueva and minimonsta... i understand now the filters are totally rad with mini... ill have to play around a lot more but im understanding things a lot more now

RonC

[omissis]

yow just tried out synth1 -- still a synth noob here, now seriously do you relaly think id need minimonsta after trying out synth1!!! seriously though would minimonsta be a perfect companion to synth1, fm7?

RonC

Oh...ok, now the questions turns to : do you really need a moogish sound? And, most of all, what you're gonna do with it? Right said Scot, it is the right approach to synthesis, to consider the analog and digital synths as simple devices to get the idea out of an amplifier more than mythological beings to dream of...got it? For example I never needed a moog sound, after a long seek I preferred to go with smoother Oberheim/Yamaha 2 poles filters (aaahhhh...the Combo Synthesizers ) and stuck with the Arturia CS which can give me sounds in that range although not spot on ( which I don't need though ) covered by the old dinosaur without bothering about tuning or breaking my back to move it...just looking at things more pragmatically

[stale bread]

shoulda red the whole thread

[stale bread]

where's the best place to get patches for all of these

[bosone]

so if you had the choice which to get, for that REAL SOLID minimoog sound? Ive been looking for this sound for so long, never knew that it was a minimoog ive been wanting

enlighten me

RonC

definitely creamware minimax (but you need a creamware card) or minimax ASB
www.creamware.de

[Dave Blakely]

This argument about what mini emulation is better is about as redundant as the pc versus mac debate, every 6 months this raises its head and the same load of fuckin waffle ensues from people that have no idea what a Moog sounds like, have never played one, and probably have cotton buds lodged way in there from childhood

All the major emulations Gforce Arturia and Creamware can sound "like" a Moog, christ even my Korg Ms10 can sound "like" a Moog given enough eq and processing, if all you require is a "Mooglike" sound then go for a freebie, dont waste your money on commercial stuff, but if your wanting a bit of software based on a legendary synthesizer that takes that sound and then ramps the possibilities up 20 fold then go for the commercial stuff, thats where the strengths of the Minimonsta and the MiniMoog V lie, these are revolutionary bits of software with potential for coming up with something "Original", course if your happy to just rehash what other people have done, fair enough, but get a freebie

[Dave Blakely]

where's the best place to get patches for all of these

Minimonsta comes with a huge library (a vast chunk of which i contributed too) So does MinimoogV.