Best host for mixing

[bullshark]

Jesus, the Cubase-hate runs deep here.

Is that what you get from my posts?

Hmm, I make no secret that I personnaly don't like it but hatred? No!
I have suggested it to acquaintances when I thought it would be the best tool for them for the job they had to do.

But I think it's the totally wrong choice of app for the op requirement, and it surprises me he's bending that way. I mean, the op requirement are pretty basic and simple, so why spent 5 times the money and 10 time the learning curve for an app that you'd only use 1% of it's capabilities, if that, while the rest of functions only gets in your way?

Just like I think the suggestion of Magix Music Maker is laughable because it doesn't meet his well spelled out and clear (for once, somebody who knows what he needs) requirements (did that guy even read the post he quoted?), I think Cubase is to the opposit end of the spectrum and overkill. Does that make me a hater?

[bduffy]

Jesus, the Cubase-hate runs deep here.

Is that what you get from my posts?

Hmm, I make no secret that I personnaly don't like it but hatred? No!
I have suggested it to acquaintances when I thought it would be the best tool for them for the job they had to do.

But I think it's the totally wrong choice of app for the op requirement, and it surprises me he's bending that way. I mean, the op requirement are pretty basic and simple, so why spent 5 times the money and 10 time the learning curve for an app that you'd only use 1% of it's capabilities, if that, while the rest of functions only gets in your way?

Just like I think the suggestion of Magix Music Maker is laughable because it doesn't meet his well spelled out and clear (for once, somebody who knows what he needs) requirements (did that guy even read the post he quoted?), I think Cubase is to the opposit end of the spectrum and overkill. Does that make me a hater?

Well, that's definitely what I got from your analgoy there. Obviously see it differently, of course. You have to keep in mind that Nuendo was designed to be a post-production audio editing tool. I say Nuendo because that's the basis for the Cubase engine and that means it's got all the audio editing features of its big brother. I use both, and I find it extremely easy, fast and intuitive to edit gargantuan, complex projects with tons of effects and offline processing, with features that no one else offers and that one gets accustomed to.

It really has every and any feature a professional would want, so that's why I react when I see statements like "buying Cubase for that is like... buying a cement truck to go kart racing". I'm sorry, but that's just a silly, unsubstantiated statement. If it performs like a Lamborghini to me and many others, then they must be doing something right, yes? That just sounds like a hater's statement to me, like someone who hasn't taken the time to learn the program - and let's be real: that's usually what it comes down to. And if you think Cubase is a cement truck, you might want to check out Pro Tools to see how limiting the industry standard is!

Anyway, I appreciate you clearing it up. It's just with the release of Cubase 4, there has been such a shocking tidal wave of invective hurled at the program (that almost no one has used!) and its users, it's just kind of overwhelming. I realise that anyone who's using - or especially started on - some of the newer, lighter, modular fare just look at Cubase and shake their heads, I totally understand. But when I hear someone asking for something with BWF support, probably working in some kind of post/scoring capacity, then I think something more linear like Cubase/Nuendo, Vegas, Reaper is probably more apporpriate than the more unusual (yet exciting) EnergyXT or Tracktion, for example.

[Squish]

Hey Bullshark,
Thanks for the info. Bloat is definitly what I'm trying to avoid. My thoughts were Nuendo may be good for what I need, but there's no demo. Then I read if you're not doing post production then Cubase is the same as Nuendo. But your right, I don't need a bunch of MIDI and a thousand different ways to get to point b from point a. I'll try the software that Kenn mentioned to get BWF into SAW. But right now, I may save a little more and get an old d8b and use software for a recorder. Can anyone see where I might regret that?

[Squish]

bduffy,
I think we were writing at the same time. So would you say that Cubase is Nuendo sans Post tools? How good/flexible is the automation? Do you know if there is a demo of Cubase?

[headquest]

Just FWIW to remind you of my previous recommendation - Adobe Audition. There's no MIDI sequencing in it at all, but it really is awesome for audio (in fact it does things that neither Nuendo or Cubase do, good though they are - but it has the feature set closer to Steinberg's expensive Wavelab audio editing suite, yet in a multitrack recording environment!!).

Another reason you should definitely consider Audition is that it costs FAR less (about a third of the price in fact!!) than either Nuendo or SAW studio. And of course it has the BWF support you want - it is in fact a top professional program used by (among many others) the BBC for broadcast audio production worldwide.

Check out the 30 day fully operational demo available from here:

http://www.adobe.com/products/audition/index.html

If you need any help getting started feel free to ask either here, in a seperate thread, or by PM. Good luck!

[bduffy]

bduffy,
I think we were writing at the same time. So would you say that Cubase is Nuendo sans Post tools? How good/flexible is the automation? Do you know if there is a demo of Cubase?

Yeah, looks like we're all writing on top of each other!

I'd say Cubase is Nuendo with the post tools. There are just a few small differences, none of which I miss when going between the two - but I'm not a hardcore TV/film Post/SMPTE/7.1 guy. I'd only go with Nuendo if you have the money or big plans in the future. Now the bonus of Cubase is that you have the full MIDI extensibility if you want it (because I recall you said you wanted some MIDI capability, no?). Vegas and Audition - great recommendations as they are - offer no MIDI/VSTi at all. That's the only beef I got with those two apps.

But - BUT! - there is no demo of Cubase. So I can't heartily recommend something you can't try. I was lucky enough to be introduced to Nuendo through work, so that's how I got into it, plus I can afford it (now). This is something the detractors are definitely right about: Cubase needs a demo!!

Did you check out Reaper? Apparently is does support BWF, it's just like Vegas and it has MIDI too (I think?). I personally like to use Cubase for making and mixing music, and I like Vegas for its stupid-fast editing and switches. I'd use Nuendo/Cubase for post more if it would just have automatic crossfades.

Anyway, deifnitely check out all the demos of everyone's great recommendations here.

[bullshark]

Yeah, Reaper is like Vegas with MIDI but no video support; I happen to think it's the best choice for the OP requirement unless there's some things he's not telling. Hell, Reaper can even import/export Vegas and Samplitude EDL on top of BWF and there was some talk at some point to have ProTool session import as well (don't remember how that turned out).

And I'm a Vegas user, bought the minute v3 came out and just "upgraded" to 7 now. But Vegas, like Audition, has no MIDI capability at all (and I happen to think Vegas is a dead end product unlike Audition which is still actively developped) so wrong choice for the case at hand.

[bduffy]

Ha ha, the quest continues...what about Sonar?

[Squish]

I would like a little MIDI, like being able to import a MIDI file and then play it back, but that's about all, no vsti needed. I'll give REAPER a try.
I had the 30 day trial of Audition and didn't really have a chance to look at it, now the trial is expired and when I'm seriously needing to look into it I can't run it at all. I'd rather have a crippled demo than a time limited!

[Panda]

Just for clarity: why don't you wanna use protools LE? I think it's a great app for mixing. I mostly use Logic for doing music production, but for music (and film) post production protools is deffo my choice. I've been forced into using it at school, but i'm glad about it- great workflow and great flexibility imo.
But enough said, tell me what you don't like about it (not to come back and tell you you're talking bs, just to see if there's any major drawbacks i'm not aware of)

[headquest]

I would like a little MIDI, like being able to import a MIDI file and then play it back, but that's about all, no vsti needed.

Audition will do that.

I had the 30 day trial of Audition and didn't really have a chance to look at it, now the trial is expired and when I'm seriously needing to look into it I can't run it at all. I'd rather have a crippled demo than a time limited!

Doh - but was it version 2? (if it was a previous version you'll still be good to run v2).

[bullshark]

I would like a little MIDI, like being able to import a MIDI file and then play it back, but that's about all, no vsti needed. I'll give REAPER a try.

You might be surprised has to what you'll find. The demo has no limitation whatsoever and it takes about 17 seconds to download and install.

I had the 30 day trial of Audition and didn't really have a chance to look at it, now the trial is expired and when I'm seriously needing to look into it I can't run it at all. I'd rather have a crippled demo than a time limited!

Have you tried turning your PC clock back? It worked for Adobe Encore when I was waiting for my box to come in and the demo had expired. Audition is, if nothing else, a great audio editor.

[Squish]

Just for clarity: why don't you wanna use protools LE? I think it's a great app for mixing.

Well, I'm not dead set against it. Does it import BWF? I really don't like being tied to Digidesign only hardware. I'd like to choose my own convertors.

but was it version 2?

yep.

Have you tried turning your PC clock back? It worked for Adobe Encore when I was waiting for my box to come in and the demo had expired. Audition is, if nothing else, a great audio editor.

I'll give it a shot.

Thanks everyone.

[Squish]

Ha ha, the quest continues...what about Sonar?

There was something funky about Sonar that stopped me cold...I can't remember what it was.

[headquest]

If turning the clock back doesn't work, you could try emailing them and explain your situation and changing needs - even post a link to this thread in case they want confirmation of your interest?