KVR Audio

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:33 pm

Nils Schneider wrote:@Aleksey Vaneev I'm not deep enough into fft and convolution to say if 64 bit are really required to get a good sound quality, but I know that older radeon cards only have an internal resolution of 24 bit for all floating point values, while nvidia cards always had 32 bit (float) and 16 bit (half, which is 16bit floating point). So if you've tested on a radeon card, this may cause the bad sound quality

No, the quality of FFT was generally acceptable, but SNR of processed audio was around 100 dB only - this is only a tiny bit better than full 16-bit resolution. So, you see, any full resolution 32-bit floating point audio will be converted basically to 16-bit audio.

Nils Schneider · Post by **Nils Schneider** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:57 pm

If so, this SNR had to appear in my plugin as well, but it doesn't. What video card do you use and which driver?

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:04 pm

Works with GeForce FX 5200 and Ableton Live 6.0.1

Does take more CPU than Ableton's native pingpong delay though...

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:07 pm

Nils Schneider wrote:If so, this SNR had to appear in my plugin as well, but it doesn't. What video card do you use and which driver?

Please, do not mix up FFT and simple multiply&add (delay) processing.

FFT performs magnitudes more additions and multiplications. Hence the necessity of a higher FP resolution.

Nils Schneider · Post by **Nils Schneider** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:14 pm

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:Please, do not mix up FFT and simple multiply&add (delay) processing.

I don't but you said "any full resolution 32-bit floating point audio will be converted basically to 16-bit audio.", I thought you meant the cpu <=> gpu thing in general. That there is a quality loss because of heavy computation is clear to me. But that should appear on a CPU aswell (if not using doubles)

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:18 pm

Nils Schneider wrote:
Aleksey Vaneev wrote:Please, do not mix up FFT and simple multiply&add (delay) processing.
I don't but you said "any full resolution 32-bit floating point audio will be converted basically to 16-bit audio.", I thought you meant the cpu <=> gpu thing in general. That there is a quality loss because of heavy computation is clear to me. But that should appear on a CPU aswell (if not using doubles)

I meant that any full 32-bit FP resolution audio processed by such FFT will be converted into 16-bit audio. Sure, this appears on CPU as well, but we can use 64-bit FP resolution. On GPU, there is no such option.

jens · Post by **jens** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:38 pm

duncanparsons wrote:
jens wrote:
duncanparsons wrote:His real name is Gol..

yeah, sure...
quid?

Check the famous aliasing thread, and you can see where the kvr-handle has changed, but the text hasn't..

maybe gol was a pseudonym too.. I'm trying to care

DSP

yes, Gol was as well just a pseudonym of course - his real name is Didier Dambrin...

Nils Schneider · Post by **Nils Schneider** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:58 pm

@jens you might want to install DirectX 9 again and check if it's working then. When looking at your log file, no D3D object can't be created which seems as if there is no valid DirectX 9 version installed

@all I've uploaded a new version, download location as always: http://www.nilsschneider.de/temp/GPUDelay.exe

Changes:

- FIX: Works with FL Studio aka Fruity Loops and energyXT
- FIX: Loud starting spike doesn't appear any longer
- ENH: Parameter smoothing, no more cracks etc when changing values

RPH · Post by **RPH** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:06 pm

tried it in FL6, and it's not working correctly.

-Cracks at startup ( no matter what the blocksize is )
-cracks don't stop
-FL6 CPU meter goes thru the roof, and crashes quick

graphic card : geforce FX 6600 GT
CPU : AMD 2100+
Host : FL6

Nils Schneider · Post by **Nils Schneider** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:12 pm

The new version that I just uploaded? Could you send me your log files (installation directory)? This would help

Thanks

O.L.T · Post by **O.L.T** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:18 pm

New vers. working fine in FL5/6 for me.... Yeee haaa

Now for that convolution/physical modelling/simulation plugin

munchkin · Post by **munchkin** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:45 pm

I would prefer a convo at 16bit res rather than nothing at all. Remember the days when everything was 16 bit and music still sounded pretty good? Don't let bit resolution put you off - a 16bit convo is still probably going to sound as good or better than most other types of reverb.

I just don't want to see this development stall because currently there are some hardware limitations. There will always be limits due to hardware yet that hasn't stopped other software development.

I know I'm sitting on the sidelines offering advice but as a consumer I'm very keen to buy GPU effects because that may give me more headroom when trying to create cpu intensive music. Imagine using a convo with little or no cpu hit - that's got to be something to celebrate.

I'm just happy that Nils has taken the initiative and risk to pioneer this development.

ddummer · Post by **ddummer** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:52 pm

Indeed don't let anything put you off.

Since this is the first actual real test I would say
that anything is good enough and I'll happily put my computer trough
any series of crashes with a big smile on my lips..

//Daniel

munchkin · Post by **munchkin** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:55 pm

ddummer wrote:Indeed don't let anything put you off.

Since this is the first actual real test I would say
that anything is good enough and I'll happily put my computer trough
any series of crashes with a big smile on my lips..

//Daniel

x2

munchkin · Post by **munchkin** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:01 pm

There are video cards with 512MB/1GB ram now and development of the gpu is moving ever faster. I would rather pay £200-300 for a highend video card than £400-800 for a DSP card. At least the video card can be used for games and video processing as well as audio. It opens up a whole new area of FX for those of us who can't afford the DSP card route.

If this takes off I think it might be helpful to have a dedicated GPU FX forum on KVR so that there is a space for developers and testers to pool knowledge and experience.

GPU Delay - A delay plugin running on a graphics card