Re: FYI - Cubase 4 No Longer Supports DirectX Plugins

[stag]

So how do you explain the fact that Sonar and all its plugs apparently run fine in Vista?

Sonar 64 bit on a 64 bit OS, they don't mention elder plug 16 bit DX plug. Sonar + Vista, that's all i read.

Well you could ask your fellas at the Cakewalk forum if they tested it with Waves Platinum 1.0 or something of that caliber.

[tahome]

Did you notice that the lengthy courtship between Microsoft and Cakewalk seems to be moving towards engagement ring time, or at least significant sponsorship/investment?

Well, quite the opposite: Cakewalk (actually TwelveTone Systems) are former Microsoft employees, so this relationship is not surprising.

--th

[stag]

Did you notice that the lengthy courtship between Microsoft and Cakewalk seems to be moving towards engagement ring time, or at least significant sponsorship/investment?

Well, quite the opposite: Cakewalk (actually TwelveTone Systems) are former Microsoft employees, so this relationship is not surprising.

--th

No shit?! are they using Sound Forge still?

[kritikon]

Talk about a contrast! Whatever you prefer in terms of the programs themselves, there's no denying that the attitude of Cakewalk as revealed in Noel's posts on that thread is far better towards customers. And customer service / developer attitude affects all users, whether or not they admit it or even realise it.

I completely agree with that. Even as a long-time Cubase user, I do look longingly at some other companies who do seem to put an awful lot more effort into customer service and/or support. But I learned to live with that many years ago. With Steinberg, you simply have to wait and see how the new upgrade version works before you leap in and buy it. (Actually I'd do exactly the same if I were on any other platform too...all of the other host companies have had the odd disaster release that needed some serious cleaning up).

So ultimately I see all the hooha settling down very quickly once the 99.5% of Cubase users who never use DX plugins realise it doesn't actually affect them at all. Of course Steinberg could have handled it better, as they could handle other things better. Cubase users have developed thick skins over the years...if you can't do that, then you use another comany's host. The user always has the choice, and no arms are being twisted here. The ones who upgrade at every version will continue to do so, and the ones like me who upgrade every several versions will most likely continue to do so too...certainly I am going to get Cubase4, without doubt. The haters will eventually get bored of stirring up more hatred at Steinberg and normal service resumes without DX.

It's funny...you don't find the likes of me or Stag going onto Logic forums and Cakewalk forums constantly taking a stab at those hosts. I can't understand why it works the other way around though. Yes we know Steinberg lag behind in some areas. We also use their host for the other reasons that it leads the field in (in our opinions).

I'd like Steinberg to talk nice to me when I spend hundreds on their host regularly. But they don't...a f**k is still a f**k even if it's not a friendly one. If they wipe their dicks on my bumcheeks as they leave the marital bed, I can live with that. The point is I had a good rogering beforehand. The niceties are just that...niceties.

[ericj23]

correct me if I'm wrong but none of these will work in vista (or 64 bit computing)

Not true, they'll work fine in Vista. Admittedly not in a 64-bit host, but nor will (almost) all existing VSTs. (I recall Izotope having a press release about 64-bit versions, Cakewalk has ported some stuff, that's about it).

alas headquest i'm just paraphrasing comments from fxpansions head honch so does he know more than both of us ? fraid so

but seeing as sonar checks your os before installing and then installs the appropriate version of itself i would of thought that the plug-ins that work in vista are not the same ones running on 32 bit xp

direct x plugs can run in 64 bit hosts as long as they are writen to handle the 64 bit word lengths - or they use a wrapper - which is exactly how cakewalk get 32 bit plugs to run in their 64 bit version at the moment

my point is that old dx plugs wont run in 64 bit - so seeing as we are all going that way drop the support - you have provided nothing to challenge that argument as I have given two very plausible reasons why angus might be right

in fact the only one misinformed round here would appear to be you

[headquest]

It's funny...you don't find the likes of me or Stag going onto Logic forums and Cakewalk forums constantly taking a stab at those hosts. I can't understand why it works the other way around though. Yes we know Steinberg lag behind in some areas. We also use their host for the other reasons that it leads the field in (in our opinions).

I agree with most of your post, but not this bit, which seems a tad unfair. I don't know about others in this thread, but I for one certainly don't go to the Cubase forums and slag it off.

THIS forum is the hosts forum at KVR, and is presumably a good place for comparing/contrasting the range of various hosts available. On the Ableton Live related threads you get some people who don't like it - same on the Sonar threads, the Reaper and Tracktion threads, etc.

Cubase threads here will be just the same as any other host, and those who are ardent fans need to basically live with that. Disagreement is sometimes uncomforatble, but I think we do have some great discussions here.

[headquest]

Hi Eric,

alas headquest i'm just paraphrasing comments from fxpansions head honch so does he know more than both of us ? fraid so

but seeing as sonar checks your os before installing and then installs the appropriate version of iteself i would of thought that the plugs in that work in vista are not the same ones running on 32 bit xp

direct x plugs can run in 64 bit hosts as long as they are writen to handle the 64 bit word lengths - or they use a wrapper - which is exactly how cakewalk get 32 bit plugs to run in their 64 bit version at the moment

my point is that old dx plugs wont run in 64 bit - so seenig as we are all going that way drop the support - you have provided nothing to challenge that argument

It's certainly an interesting point you make, and I don't know any more about this than what Cakewalk have said... Noel/Cakewalk have said there will always be full backwards compatibility (read the quote I already posted confirming that) and that SONAR 6 fully runs on Vista.

I have no idea about fxpansion, but I'm assuming that Noel knows more about this than anyone, as he has been testing it (as have microsoft).

[ericj23]

having not run sonar in 64 bit (something to do with not having either sonar or a 64 bit pc) I don't know how it handles 32 bit plugs - i know it can and it uses a wrapper but is it done automatically ? as in you don't need to tell it that it is a 32bit plug - it just knows.

because i suspect that is how the backwards compatibility will be provided

[headquest]

I'm not on a 64-bit computer, but yes, I think you are probably right about that AFAIK. Presumably this is why and how Cakewalk are committed to not dropping DX support, even though developers appear to have.

Incidentally, Sonar is not my main host (I use both Live and Audition more). But I do like their attitude in this respect.

[kp]

You do know Vista is 32 bit as well as 64 bit? So it's entirely possible that current DX (and VST) plug-ins will work in the 32 bit version - in fact, I'd be prepared to put money on it given the comments from Noel Borthwick (Cakewalk) on the SONAR forum about having SONAR 6 running fine under VISTA: running without plug-ins is *not* running "fine" in my book!

[LoopyFruit]

So ultimately I see all the hooha settling down very quickly once the 99.5% of Cubase users who never use DX plugins realise it doesn't actually affect them at all.

Well the figures on the Nuendo forum tell a different story

http://forum.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=12588

It's funny...you don't find the likes of me or Stag going onto Logic forums and Cakewalk forums constantly taking a stab at those hosts. I can't understand why it works the other way around though.

Not just anyone can post on Steinberg forums you need a Dongle number otherwise the post gets deleted or locked…… so it seems the only ones doing the "Stabbing" on the Steinberg forums are your fellow Steinberg buddies.

[stag]

There is not a single host that i don't admire for one reson or another but mostly because making the PC components make a sound and organize them is like voodoo to myself.
As we all musicians have different needs, ways of living and tastes, coders most probably have differents approaches to life and so on.
It's natural that as individuals we migth chosen hosts made by people who understand our way of thinking or process things on a more convinient way to us.
I use Cubase because i have fun with it, i think i could put a tune together on another, even have hints how great other DAW are going to be on a release or two and buy them rigth now, even if for the moment i use them alone for the bundled plugs but for now having fun with them would be almost impossible because i would have to adapt myself to them, instead of them being adapted to myself.

It would however being unthinckable to me to harass developers or users of another host, but that's me... i agree with headquest that discussion would be hard without a counterpoint, if not impossible.
I remember once telling to a disgruntled user of some sequencer: "c'mon, man! Things cannot be that bad, most of the times error users and bla bla on and on and on", his answer:"Stop the patronizing you f**k!". Well in my mind i was only trying to be positive and encourage him to dig deeper... no it was patronizing.
Since then i mostly only participate on Cubase threads, not because i know a lot about it but because i know a little more of Cubase than I know about other apps.

When people tell me their sequencer is different and all sequencers should be like theirs because they are better, i understand it has they really like their host and so to them it's better but excuse me, to me they are not... they simply don't arouse me excuse me again but this when the spark of "stupidity" clicks and KVR shines at its best, all in good fun off course, in the end this all about the noise

[tahome]

How very, very, VERY true!

--th

[LoopyFruit]

Nice post Stag

[headquest]

Nice post Stag

+1